TR7 said:
In reply to Trackmouse :
On paper they dont seem too bad. If I remember they were also one of the few cheap AWD cars that could lock the center diff via a button (as opposed to an open center diff with AWD that works via traction control). But I could also be very wrong.
I don't know what you mean by having a center diff with AWD that works by traction control. I'm aware of zero vehicles with that setup. If it has a center diff, it is AWD period.
Do you mean like my Subaru GL had, where it was front drive until you engaged the rear driveshaft with a lever (at which point it was locked, and there was zero differential involved)? Or do you mean like my Subaru RX and my Quantums had/have, where there's a actual differential, and you can physically lock the two center diff outputs together with a dashboard control, at which point the handling goes from awful to worse? Or do you mean like my Volvo has, where there is no center differential to speak of (like that GL) and there is just a computer controlled clutch in the drivetrain and HAL decides to smoothly engage it as necessary, but the SX4 allows you to manually lock it because you think you know better than HAL does?
(Cliffs' notes: After living with the GL, and the RX, and the VW, and the Volvo, I think HAL knows what the heck he's doing)
Trackmouse said:
John Welsh said:
Suzuki SX4
That would be fun for nobody.
Says the guy who's never driven one. They are fun if you go in with an open mind.
In reply to Appleseed :
They remind me of 5/4-scale Golfs. Right down to having a twist beam rear suspension.
Funny that the actual all wheel drive Golfs went to a Super Beetle-based trailing arm suspension (borrowed from the all wheel drive Quantum), but Suzuki figured out how to stuff a diff and driveshaft under the beam.
Mind, I'm talking about real Golfs, not the late model junk with multilink rear suspension that sucks for handling and is only popular with hardparkers who need to get camber angle just right.
Appleseed said:
Trackmouse said:
John Welsh said:
Suzuki SX4
That would be fun for nobody.
Says the guy who's never driven one. They are fun if you go in with an open mind.
Thumbs’d up because you are right!
EvanB said:
clutchsmoke said:
Stop watching World Rally videos. Or start thinking about FWD rally.
Or start thinking about rwd rally and buy a Volvo.
Exactly! “Awd is king” there I said it. Now let’s go have fun in a RWD.
TR7
Reader
12/3/17 11:41 a.m.
My mistake for the poor information, the sx4 does not have a center diff, just an output from the trans. What I meant was that the sx4 was fwd, and output to the rear was controlled by an electronic clutch, that can be switched on all the time to engage the front and rear simultaneously regardless of slip. This would be compared to awd cars with an open center diff, that when slip is detected at any wheel, uses brake modulation to control slip. I didnt think the sx4 system was as advanced as HAL. If slip was detected, it just engaged the clutch pack until X road speed was reached, then disengaged.
I dont have your experience with all the nuances between the systems and how they handle, but I have had one with a viscous coupling center diff and no traction control, and have driven the same car without the VC and traction control (both xtypes, also have an outback, but the system available there is not in the same league). I liked that the first car would be able to power out of poor traction situations, whereas the second would bog, and really kill momentum. It was one of the interesting things about the sx4 when I test drove one (a long time ago), theoretically it would not cut power in limited traction situations, though I never tested it.
Great, so I know a place that sells 240’s....
In reply to wheelsmithy :
RAV4
Center diff locks with a push button on the manuals. Vacuum operated, actually. I THINK that the auto's have more of an automatic center diff based off of vacuum, from what I've read, but I don't have an auto to confirm it. They also might still have the lock button. The ZAV is auto and it has a center diff lock, but that's a totally different system.
Are those AWD Celica's actually capable?
They've been on my radar for a while. Prices for complete drivers are getting pretty high, but clapped project cars sometimes dip into the $2-3k range.
AWD Civic Wagon. Lego like swappability and AWD manual fun and Honda reliability. Some of the drivetrain parts are not available new any more but they're reasonably tough. Can even be made to handle on a road course but the aerodynamics kill speed above about 80.
Vigo
UltimaDork
12/3/17 12:55 p.m.
My recent thoughts along this line have been an AWD Pontiac Aztek (under 3k easy) but with a cammed 3900 swap to make it fun (blows the budget).
In real life i will eventually pry my buddies long-dead 92 5spd/4wd Subaru Loyale Wagon away from him eventually!!!
In reply to Vigo :
Don't even need to cam up the 3900, it's a great engine out of the box.
So is the 3400, if it weren't artifically restricted to keep it from beating up on the "premium" 3800. It wasn't until the 3800 was axed that the 60 degree V6 was allowed to shine. Heads are WAY better than the Buick engine, and power output was similar despite the 3800 having headers from the factory and the 60-degrees having little tiny log manifolds, literally a 1.5" pipe with ports on the side.
EvanB
UltimaDork
12/3/17 4:30 p.m.
In reply to penultimeta :
I'm kinda sad i didn't go to Indiana and drive that this weekend. This happened last time i was at a Brian "rallycross":
clutchsmoke said:
Stop watching World Rally videos. Or start thinking about RWD rally.
Let me fix that for you.
On a side note, we had an SX4 run most of the last two rallycross seasons with us. It was relatively quick (though not beating the subies, for the most part), and to my recollection, I never saw it broken down.
Also, Pete - you CAN run turbo AWD cars as a noobie with no coefficients. Just run NASA Rally...
EvanB said:
In reply to penultimeta :
I'm kinda sad i didn't go to Indiana and drive that this weekend. This happened last time i was at a Brian "rallycross":
Carefully note that everybody is having a good time and they are in a rear drive Volvo. This is relevant to the thread.
(And if that is the car that was lent to me that one time, it made the coolest turbo noises)
Knurled. said:
EvanB said:
In reply to penultimeta :
I'm kinda sad i didn't go to Indiana and drive that this weekend. This happened last time i was at a Brian "rallycross":
Carefully note that everybody is having a good time and they are in a rear drive Volvo. This is relevant to the thread.
(And if that is the car that was lent to me that one time, it made the coolest turbo noises)
Nobody has eever had a bad time in a turbo rear drive Volvo regardless of surface.
Vigo
UltimaDork
12/3/17 10:48 p.m.
Don't even need to cam up the 3900, it's a great engine out of the box.
I'm sure it is, but unless people are going way past the ~240chp rating with just a tune, it's not the kind of thing i would spend the effort swapping for. I'm under the impression you could cam and tune and get closer to 300chp.
In reply to penultimeta :
Universally, you can lose the Volvo, and the turbo and still have a good time.
Robbie
PowerDork
12/4/17 2:46 p.m.
What about the Kia and Suzuki small SUVs?
