Anyone here experienced with building aluminum monocoque chassis?

I was fantasizing about the 70's (F5000 specifically) and wondered if anyone here had ever been involved in making one...

In reply to stroker :

I'm hoping this is the start to an epic build thread. 

havent done it, but was party to serious consideration of building one for FSAE many moons ago (carbon supplier pulled out at last minute)

The best area to spend your time is likely the manuals on aircraft fabrication/repair. Thats probably the biggest non-industrial application of everything you need. 

Hey,

This book had some good info on monocoque fabrication. (I donated my copy some time ago.)

https://www.amazon.com/Metal-Fabricators-Handbook-Ron-Fournier/dp/0895868709

Rog

Allan Staniforths original 'Race and Rally car sourcebook' had several examples that described what material, thickness, rivet spacing etc. with lot's of good pics, both of folded aluminium sheet and honeycomb.

I'm not a fan of folded aluminium tubs though, while they have given the illusion of safety compared to earlier space frame cars I think part of that was more due to secondary factors.  I think a proper steel spaceframe is safer.  

Don't know about building them but i am the guy that bought the one that was for sale here a few years ago. Aluminum monocoque, olds 215, tr4 independent rear end, multilink suspension. Real trick car based on 70s race car technology. Sounds like exactly what you are fantasizing about. I would move it along fairly cheap. Want more details?

Are FASE cars made with Al tubs or have they all moved onto carbon fiber?

I have restored several. Ralt formula Super Vee/CSR was the first. Followed by Shannon/Olds CSR, then McRae F5000, and most recently a Chevron B42 F Atlantic, which hardly deserves the term Monocoque. Also have done some repairs to a few others that were not full restores. No photos of the Ralt or Shannon in pieces, but below are a few of the McRae, and one of the completed Chevron. Feel free to ask questions! The McRae is the purest Monocoque of the lot.

tr8todd said:

Don't know about building them but i am the guy that bought the one that was for sale here a few years ago. Aluminum monocoque, olds 215, tr4 independent rear end, multilink suspension. Real trick car based on 70s race car technology. Sounds like exactly what you are fantasizing about. I would move it along fairly cheap. Want more details?

I have no recollection whatsoever about the car you're referencing.  Please PM me--I'm curious what it is. 

TurnerX19 said:

I have restored several. No photos of the Ralt or Shannon in pieces, but below are a few of the McRae, and one of the completed Chevron. Feel free to ask questions! The McRae is the purest Monocoque of the lot.

 

Was that the same car Jody Scheckter drove?  IIRC it was fluorescent red when raced.  

It just occurred to me that Zenith Aircraft is about an hour down the road.  I should prolly make arrangements to attend some of their workshops.  

stroker said:

tr8todd said:

Don't know about building them but i am the guy that bought the one that was for sale here a few years ago. Aluminum monocoque, olds 215, tr4 independent rear end, multilink suspension. Real trick car based on 70s race car technology. Sounds like exactly what you are fantasizing about. I would move it along fairly cheap. Want more details?

I have no recollection whatsoever about the car you're referencing.  Please PM me--I'm curious what it is. 

Screw PMing, please post here for general interest.  I don't recall it either.  

Adrian_Thompson said:

stroker said:

tr8todd said:

Don't know about building them but i am the guy that bought the one that was for sale here a few years ago. Aluminum monocoque, olds 215, tr4 independent rear end, multilink suspension. Real trick car based on 70s race car technology. Sounds like exactly what you are fantasizing about. I would move it along fairly cheap. Want more details?

I have no recollection whatsoever about the car you're referencing.  Please PM me--I'm curious what it is. 

Screw PMing, please post here for general interest.  I don't recall it either.  

Ida thunk I woulda remembered that.

Come on, you guys don't remember this thing.  It was in Eastern Pa for challenge money.  Got the car and a literal 8 foot pickup truck bed full of Buick/Olds stuff.  I got so many thumbs up and horn blasts on the way home with this thing.  Builder was an engineer that built his own Formula race cars in the 70s.  He passed away and the car sat in storage for a long long time.

See if you can find a copy of this book. It covers both tube frame and stressed skin construction.

In reply to tr8todd :

That's the first time I've ever seen it. 

In reply to stroker :

Same make and model, but different chassis number. the car I restored was chassis 006 of 13 original cars.STP florescent red was the color on the factory team cars, 006 was originally and is now dark blue.

Man, that gives me funny feelings in the nether region.

Tom Johnston has built a car or two he is a retired P.Eng. and author you might try reaching out through his publisher https://granvilleislandpublishing.com/authors/tom_johnston.html

In reply to tr8todd :

PLease start a new thread with details and pictures.  Then please push every other project to the back of the garage and damn well get on with it!!!!

Back around 2004-2005 I got to see the "Vancouver Special" A-Mod autocross car getting built. Its monocoque was made from aluminum honeycomb panels that got notched, bent and riveted together on the inside (I think it was rivets), with matching bent flat bar across the inside of the bend. They used generously sized plates to spread out the load on any points where the suspension, engine, etc mounted. That's one option for a small single seater.

I am!

I designed and built two of these chassis from scratch while I was working at Lola Cars as a designer on the Indycar program - having previously raced a standard Sports 2000 Lola in the British Championship, (which tub had the torsional stiffness of a wet turd).  They have aluminum honeycomb bulkheads but they were not made from cut, or folded, honeycomb panel.  The skins were made first, so they had integral flanges, and then they were bonded to the honeycomb core to create the bulkheads - much lighter, and stiffer that way as you are not riveting loose flanges to the honeycomb panel skins.  This thing had a torsional stiffness three times that of a standard chassis for no weight penalty:

British Aerospace trained me in the disciplines of aircraft structure design and full-scale layout drafting.  Full-scale layout drafting is a dead art now.  (CAD has obviated the need).  It was the technique of producing template drawings of sheet metal components in their flattened out state - drawn accurate to 0.010".  (It was also known as "lofting" because the ship-building industry used to lay out the bulkhead positions using chalk-lines on the floor of the loft above the dry dock where the ship was being built).  The aircraft drawings could be as big as a 6 ft x 10 ft compound curvature wing skin or as small as a 1" x 1" cleat.  They were kind of analogous to the tissue paper material templates that women use to make dresses.

Every panel in these chassis had the rivet holes drilled 3/32" pilot diameter before the panels were folded.  And they all lined up before being opened out to 5/32" for the rivets.

In reply to Wrighty :

Excellent!  An SME in our midst!  Can you refer me to any books/websites that might illustrate the construction process from start to finish?  Or perhaps a YouTube video? 

In reply to Wrighty :

Now, please start a thread detailing some of your exploits over the years immediately.  Stories from people like you are how I live vicariously in the racing world.  Especially my golden age from the late 60's to the late 80's.

Join your local EAA chapter.  I can almost guarantee there is someone building an RV6 there right now.