In reply to pres589:
If you can even see the engine anymore under the plumbing.
It seems the current trend is that the powertrain shouldn't even be seen, let alone heard. And if you have the hood up for any reason, people think you're about to call for a tow.
Direct comparison,
1. 92 429 manual F700 (ClifFord) gets 5 mpg
2. 92 New Holland turbo diesel, Alison auto F600 (Sampson) which weighs 3000lbs more than ClifFord averages around 11 mpg
3. 97 Powerstroke auto F350 gets 23 mpg and can tow as much as either Medium duty Ford.
big bocks are alive and well in the north east modifieds.
But occasionally a small block shows them the way.
aussiesmg wrote: Direct comparison, 1. 92 429 manual F700 (ClifFord) gets 5 mpg 2. 92 New Holland turbo diesel, Alison auto F600 (Sampson) which weighs 3000lbs more than ClifFord averages around 11 mpg 3. 97 Powerstroke auto F350 gets 23 mpg and can tow as much as either Medium duty Ford.
And that powerstroke is now dead thanks to emissions destroying every new diesel truck(mpgs and actually destroying themselves).
I'm interested in a new 3/4 ton truck in the next 3-4 years, but unless the EGR, DPF, and DEF fluid problems get sorted out in the next few years there's no way I'll even think about it. Even then fuel quality can do $10-14k in damage to the pumps and injectors if you're unlucky enough.
Ive been leaning more towards the Hemi 6.4(392ci or so)... With the advent of 6spd transmissions and using lower rear gears(4.10s) you can have plenty of torque to pull 15000lbs and still get mid-teens to high teens unloaded.
There are a LOT of people who are trading diesels for gas engines due to maintenance/reliability problems. Unless you need to tow 15k-30k lbs I'd have a hard time finding a way that it makes sense to buy a new diesel now.
If the 8.1 were still offered I'd heavily consider it.
I still want too 460 the wagon. Its probably good that i dont know how too weld. The 302/351 is bolt in after a k member swap for me.
I'll just leave this here:
We finally acquired a transmission and have it prepped to go, I'll be updating the build thread soonish.
So if I can build a 416 CI 500HP small block and have it pretty streetable who really needs a big block?
You can get a ton of cubes out of small blocks without the weight penalty now a days.
bmw88rider wrote: So if I can build a 416 CI 500HP small block and have it pretty streetable who really needs a big block?
Someone who wants to use that power a lot. One advantage to big blocks is the generally larger bearing surfaces and less constrained water jackets. Cooling can be a real issue when you take a small-block sized head and then put in big-block sized ports. And then make the heads out of aluminum. Water jacket area drops to nothing.
Big blocks also tend to have larger cam cores. This is a REAL sore spot for SBCs. The flip side is, when you have the ability to have a real monster of a camshaft, the tendency is to USE that ability.
Another answer would be, someone who isn't satisfied with 500hp :) That 600+ci engine I mentioned upthread should just squeak into 4 figure horsepower. Pump gas, all motor. No idea how long the valvesprings are going to last on the street, though, given the acceleration and lift involved on the mountain range lurking in the valley.
RossD wrote: Do they still have a place in GRM style vehicles?
YUP. We have a 496 in the Stude gasser. We plan a high end BBC for the Monza.
RossD wrote: Would you drop a big block in your project/Challenge car if there wasn't one in there already?
We are getting close. Have a 454 I bought for $150. We sold the 496.
RossD wrote: That is true, the nomenclature is silly. How about the typical old school ones then? Would you pay the extra money (and weight) to play with them in a sports car setting?
Yes. Yes I would.
The concept of a unique architecture large displacment V8 in production vehicles is definitely dead and gone. Novelty, nostalgia, and instant low end torque aside I don't see much in them from an enthusiast standpoint either. Sure it's easier and more reliable to get big power from a BBC vs. a SBC, but that's something of a dead argument with how plentiful and cheap LS engines have become. It may well be easier and more reliable/streetable to get 900hp out of a BBC vs a SBC. But why spend big money on a BBC buildup when you can make the same power with equal or greater reliability, probably less wight, and more fuel economy, with a used LS truck motor with little more than a big turbo and a set of rods?
I hear you on the need for a BB in certain applications. My uncle's 572 vette is a beast at over 700 HP. I had a good friend that ran a 10.9 sec BB 500+ CI mustang. There are the uses no doubt. 
I have the perfect core for a Big CI SB mopar on the stand. If I get the right car to put it in, I may just build it out for fun.
My heavily built 440 in a '70 crew cab dodge truck will pull down trees even with a 3.54 rear end and 31" tires. The bone stock 413 that's in my '85 dually crew cab with the 4.10 rear doesn't even work with 10k# on the trailer. While both struggle to break into double digits for mpg, it takes a lot of miles to make up for the diesel buy in price and short of blowing up the motor there are no things that can fail that will cost more than $150 or so to fix. Can you even change the oil in a diesel for $150?
That said, I just bought a 2500hd Chevy with the 6L because the rest of the truck is so much nicer to knock down the miles in than the 30 or 45 year old Dodges.
I think we're at the point where a BB simply weights too much compared to the competition in a racing vehicle.
Of course, that changes when you hit a drag strip. No replacement for displacement (well.. maybe watts...).
Toyman01 wrote: In reply to NickD: Meet the Green Giant. 94, 460.
Needless to say, I'm loving the sub $2/gal gas prices.
Because there are some FWD mini-vans that could pull that.
So a little recap as the way I see it:
)Did I miss something?
I am Older than my 454, see you there (be waiting on ya!)
The Fiesta comes with a 1.0 liter 3-cylinder. The Fiesta ST comes with a 1.6 liter. I am running the big block!
RossD Yes you did miss one Little thing. You can find BBC out there cheap in need of a rebuild. I paid 400 bucks for my 454 and I Know it will make 400HP. So I Just Moved it 12" back to compensate for weight. Thanks for the Maclaren Pic Appleseed It's Motivational.
RossD wrote: So a little recap as the way I see it: * Drag racing: No replacement for displacement; Big Blocks Win. * Full-On Race Cars with No limits(Can-Am Cars ala Appleseeds pic): Big Blocks Win * You want 400 hp and do it with an easy button: Big Blocks Lose. * Engine Swaps: Probably a Big Block Lose. (Except for Psychic-Mechanic's Miata
Only this: If you need to tow a heavy load (and don't want/can't afford a Diesel), Big Block wins.
BTW, GM did discontinue the 8.1L, but they sold the engine stuff. It is still being used in Marine, stationary and Medium duty trucks. Mercury marine offers it as a reman engine.
GTXVette wrote: RossD Yes you did miss one Little thing. You can find BBC out there cheap in need of a rebuild. I paid 400 bucks for my 454 and I Know it will make 400HP. So I Just Moved it 12" back to compensate for weight. Thanks for the Maclaren Pic Appleseed It's Motivational.
Good point. Keep telling everyone how great the LS is, small block stuff is alreay nice and cheap. Maybe we can get the big block stuff lower as well. Around Atlanta, people are still asking good prices for Big Block stuff.
RossD wrote: * You want 400 hp and do it with an easy button: Big Blocks Lose.
Not really. A big block will make 400hp without even trying and be tame as a kitten.
In reply to NickD:
You can buy a 2014+ Silverado with the 6.2 small block and get 420 hp, 460 lb-ft and get a highway 21 mpg in a 2wd truck. Did I mention the warranty? And you want tame...? 
For a 400 hp big block what's the recipe? Grab a 10+:1 compression from the late 60s/early 70s era; that's gonna cost at least four digits.
Or grab a run of the mill big block truck engine and throw parts at it? Big Block parts are more expensive than small block parts, typically. Would you need to get aluminum heads and an intake? Probably at least a cam?
So you would probably do the same for the truck version of a small block LSx. What does it take to get ten year old truck engine to 400 hp?
I don't know so that's why I'm asking.
Now if my statement was for the easy button for 800 hp...
Big block > small block when it comes to breathing. Have you ever seen a small block head with ports that you can shove your fist in? No you haven't.
Good points Ross. One important difference is the big block will make the 400 hp at a lower rpm than the LS engine. Displacement helps with that.
Big Block parts aren't necessarily cheap, but neither are LS parts, especially if buying new parts. Since GM hasn't put a big block in a car since the 70s, most of the junkyard stuff is low-perf truck parts. Blocks are still good foundations for building one though.
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