Are closed face Snell SA rated helmets also any good for motorcycle riding?

Hey everyone,

I'm getting ready to get back into autocross again and craming my head in an overly sweaty loaner helmet that may or may not barely fit gets really old. I want to buy one soon.

I'm debating between an open face or closed face helmet though. I'm thinking about a closed face helmet if I can make it "dual purpose" in the event that I buy a motorcyle in the next couple years like I intend to.

I know that for autocross I need an SA rated helmet and an M rated one is not legal for autocross racing but I'm wondering how good an SA helmet would be for motorcyle riding?

Are they going to have design differences in visor style?

Does one or the other pose a disadvantage in peripheral vision?

Would I find an SA helmet uncomfortable on a motorcycle?

On a side tangent, Is there ever any requirement to have a full face helmet for HPDEs? I may give that a shot eventually this summer later and more in the future.

If an SA helmet isn't a good fit for motorcyle riding then I'm probably just going to get an open face helmet and be done with it. I'd worry about buying an M helmet when I actually need it.

Two different requirements I was told for the helmets. What I do know is that the motorcycle one is allowed for HPDE's. I was told you can't use the auto racing helmet for motorcyles.

That's what I was told but can't confirm the requirements.

I'm no helmet expert, but I've been doing some research to get a new dirt bike helmet, and lots of things have changed in helmet design in the past decade, and the rating system is way behind the actual tech.

This is a controversial article from 2005 that has a lot of information to chew on

This is the thread from ThmperTalk forums where I found that article, there are some other useful links in that thread.

In short, after reading the current thinking on helmet design, I don't think that I'd want to use an auto racing helmet for motorcycling.

What club requires SA helmets for autox? AFAIK, SCCA accepts both Snell SA and M helmets, and most local clubs follow SCCA rules in this regard.

http://cdn.growassets.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/011/658/2016_Solo_helmet_cert_decals_2.pdf?1450109868

SA helmets are not DOT-approved for motorcycle use, although that's likely just because nobody pays for the certification. AIUI, the principal differences between Snell SA and M helmets are that the M helmets have a test for sliding across asphalt, the SA helmets have a test for roll bar impacts, the SA helmets have smaller eye ports, and SA also have a fire rating requirement.

As far as open vs closed face, personally I will never buy an open face helmet. Maybe it's OK for autox (because the helmet there is really just for insurance reasons), but in any motorsports situation where I think a helmet's protection may actually be required, leaving my face open just seems really stupid to me.

codrus wrote: AIUI, the principal differences between Snell SA and M helmets are that the M helmets have a test for sliding across asphalt, the SA helmets have a test for roll bar impacts, the SA helmets have smaller eye ports, and SA also have a fire rating requirement.

The main difference you will feel (if you don't crash) is the eyeport is generally smaller in SA helmets. You probably wont notice so much in a car, but I notice on motorcycles.

codrus wrote: As far as open vs closed face, personally I will never buy an open face helmet. Maybe it's OK for autox (because the helmet there is really just for insurance reasons), but in any motorsports situation where I think a helmet's protection may actually be required, leaving my face open just seems really stupid to me.

Yep, I saw a DOT study once that showed like 98% of head impacts being to the face or chin area. Why bother with a helmet that doesn't protect for that?

I have two Simpson helmets, closed face same model . One is SA rated, the other is rated M. The difference ? The liner, one is fire retardant, the other is not.

I see no reason that an SA helmet with good ventilation wouldn't work.

Do any states require a Snell motorcycle. I know NYS does not. Any thing hard is approved by DOT.

I use both M and SA rated helmets for kart racing and would never want to wear an SA helmet for street riding on a motorcycle. Your peripheral vision is greatly reduced, and the overall quality and comfort is much lower for an SA helmet vs an M for the price. I do not have a wide viewport SA helmet though, so that might make it usable (but still not preferable) on the street.

I have a Shoei wide port SA2005 racing helmet that is out of date that I have logged many miles of bike time with. If I set it next to my brandy-spankin' new Shoei M2015 RF-1200 it appears to be the same shell, same thickness, same foam. The only discernible difference is the sexy paint job, the lack of nomex liner on the pads and the snell sticker.

The only reason for the replacement in the 1st place was deep chips from roll bar contact on the car helmet. Otherwise... I'd still be using it. Instead I'm going to cut it in half and mount it on the garage wall. And now I have two brand new helmets. one SA and one M.

IAW w/article in recent GRM, Iceracer nailed it. Biggest difference is SA has fire retardant liner and M does not. Manufacturers may have other slight differences such as the eye openings mentioned. Can't see why you couldn't use an SA for motorcycling. A lot better than no helmet.

Robbie wrote: Yep, I saw a DOT study once that showed like 98% of head impacts being to the face or chin area. Why bother with a helmet that doesn't protect for that?

No need to guess. The Icon Airframe Statistic spells it out for you!

I wear a G-Force SA helmet on my bike, when I'm wearing a helmet on the bike.

I read somewhere that moto helmets are designed for one big smack (the pavement), where as auto helmets are multiple, somewhat smaller smacks (the roll bar.)

Dr. Hess wrote: I wear a G-Force SA helmet on my bike, when I'm wearing a helmet on the bike.

In reply to codrus:

I go more for this type of bicycle:

Robbie wrote: ... I saw a DOT study once that showed like 98% of head impacts being to the face or chin area. Why bother with a helmet that doesn't protect for that?

No effing way, as a God-fearin' American you're entitled to do what you want, so that's why real men ride Harleys while wearing tiny beanie-type helmets.

In reply to Appleseed:

No. The tests are designed that way. The helmets just pass the tests. If the same helmet can do both... you just need some NOMEX instead of a whole other product run.

Shoei sells the same helmet in the EU with CE certification that they sell here with Snell and/or DOT.

kb58 wrote:

Robbie wrote: ... I saw a DOT study once that showed like 98% of head impacts being to the face or chin area. Why bother with a helmet that doesn't protect for that?

No effing way, as a God-fearin' American you're entitled to do what you want, so that's why real men ride Harleys while wearing tiny beanie-type helmets.

Damn straight.

Thanks everyone. I've been posting on the local SCCA Club FB pages asking about M helmets being approved for use and so far 2 of the 3 have responded and said yes. I also asked on the page for the most track I will most likely do HPDEs at eventually.

I figured that peripheral vision could be a concern on an SA helmet and that was my biggest concern. Sounds like there's a dealer not too far away the caries Bell Helmets so I might take a drive up there soon and see if they have both SA and M helmets that I can try on.

On a different tangent that I should have mentioned first, is an SA open face helmet usually approved for HPDEs? I've had one group reply to my post and tell me that M helmets are not approved for HPDEs.

If I can't do an HPDE with an M helmet I may just buy a budget open face SA and worry about getting a dedicated motorcyle helmet later when I buy one. I'm more likely to do an HPDE or 2 this summer then get a motorcycle this year.

In reply to Contradiction:

My local HPDE group does not allow M helmets either.

It used to be that all the track groups around here would accept any Snell helmet, SA or M. Poking around at various web sites, it appears that most of them have now switched to SA only, which seems kind of stupid to me. The nomex lining isn't going to help much if you're wearing jeans and a t-shirt...

Why go open face?

codrus wrote: It used to be that all the track groups around here would accept any Snell helmet, SA or M. Poking around at various web sites, it appears that most of them have now switched to SA only, which seems kind of stupid to me. The nomex lining isn't going to help much if you're wearing jeans and a t-shirt... Why go open face?

Yeah that is kind of silly. I'm guessing it has more to do with the testing for multiple impacts on a roll bar then?

I'm thinking open face just to get something that would be a lower budget helmet. If I need to buy a separate helmet for a motorcycle later this would make sense.

I otherwise wanted full face hoping that I could use either an M or an SA for auto racing and on a motorcycle. There I would definitely need a face shield.

brad131a4 wrote: Two different requirements I was told for the helmets. What I do know is that the motorcycle one is allowed for HPDE's.

And I've heard just the opposite from multiple sources - Ms are no good for track days; only SAs.

Contradiction wrote:

codrus wrote: It used to be that all the track groups around here would accept any Snell helmet, SA or M. Poking around at various web sites, it appears that most of them have now switched to SA only, which seems kind of stupid to me. The nomex lining isn't going to help much if you're wearing jeans and a t-shirt... Why go open face?

Yeah that is kind of silly. I'm guessing it has more to do with the testing for multiple impacts on a roll bar then? I'm thinking open face just to get something that would be a lower budget helmet. If I need to buy a separate helmet for a motorcycle later this would make sense. I otherwise wanted full face hoping that I could use either an M or an SA for auto racing and on a motorcycle. There I would definitely need a face shield.

Most of the cars at your average HPDE are street cars, they don't have roll bars. An SA requirement for a driver in a street car wearing street clothes makes no sense at all, but appears to be the standard these days.

Looking at racerpartswhole.com, open face SA2015 helmets start at $170 and closed ones at $200. For $30 more I'd get the closed face one.

I see some comments that SA helmets have less peripheral vision.

Not so. Helmets can be found with wide vision regardless of SA or M.

As I mentioned earlier, my two Simpson Voyagers have wide eye ports.

Interesting that DOT uses Snell information.

Some time ago at a club meeting, one of our members who rides came in carrying his helmet. He said, holding up his helmet, thank god for full face helmets. The chin bar as well scraped up. He had hit a slick spot while turning a street corner and dumped it.