Are E46 M3 Prices Really This Low?

So it looks like E46 M3s are bargains now. Just saw this one: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/cto/4900918590.html

Is that a reasonable car or is something big going to pop soon?

thatsnowinnebago wrote: So it looks like E46 M3s are bargains now. Just saw this one: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/cto/4900918590.html Is that a reasonable car or is something big going to pop soon?

Yes, and maybe, maybe not. I think rod bearings were an issue on some of these. I'd buy one.

You can find them around here for less than $15K. Usually rebuilt titles, but I don't care as long as the repairs were done properly. I seen a couple under $10 that were runners. I'd be tempted, but I've decided my '95 M3 is the perfect track car for me, so I'm putting all my funds into it. I could never sell it for close to what I have in it, so I'm all in...

I got my '03 6 speed coupe a year and a half ago with 120k miles for $13,400. So far it's been great. SMGs and convertibles can be found even cheaper.

Do these cars have the VANOS issues like the M5s?

In reply to thatsnowinnebago:

Rod bearings are much more of a problem than VANOS on the S54. Also, I'd nearly venture to say the car in that ad is OVERPRICED, something about all that bodywork rubs me the wrong way...

thatsnowinnebago wrote: So it looks like E46 M3s are bargains now. Just saw this one: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/cto/4900918590.html Is that a reasonable car or is something big going to pop soon?

Yes, they are that cheap.

That particular car has been on and off craigslist for the past year or so. I think my buddy checked it out (or at least inquired more) and the bodywork was an "issue".

I bought my '05 Silver Gray on Black SMG Competition Package car for $15.7k last June. I'd say it was an average deal. It needed Inspection 2 which is time consuming (DIY) or costly (dealer), as well as rod bearings (preventive maintenance!) and some bushings. My friend drove my car when I brought it home and promptly shopped for one. Two weeks later he ended up with an '04 in Alpine White on Cinnamon with the SMG, for ~$19k. It needed all the same things that my car did. The premium he paid was for the color combination, and I'd say it was worth it -- it just wasn't in my price range. The cinnamon interior is GORGEOUS.

Rod bearings, VANOS, cooling system (ALL parts), and subframe reinforcement are preventive repairs/maintenance and will cost you ~$3 to $4k so add that to the price of the car you're buying, unless you have clear proof that they've been done already. The S54 engine is also due for a valve adjustment every 30k miles.

Anyway... buy one... they're so good! Two weeks after my purchase I went on a 12k mile road trip around the country, hitting major tracks along the way. I spent the first two weeks doing the preventive maintenance, and the car finished the trip without a problem.

My '05 as purchased:

(currently wrapped matte gray metallic):

My friend's Cinnamon interior with some aftermarket parts from Coby Wheel to dress it up:

Every time I see his interior I wish I had it in my car!

In reply to series8217:

You aren't kidding about the cinnamon interior

Prices on non-SMG coupes seem to be going back up. I think I entered the local market at the end of its depreciation run.

The E46 M3 is a brilliant car and it excels at many things. The only knock I would make against it is that it is maintenance heavy and consumable intensive. But it is, by far, my favourite car for all the different types of driving I do -- from distance, to track days, to autocross.

Tyler H wrote:

thatsnowinnebago wrote: So it looks like E46 M3s are bargains now. Just saw this one: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/cto/4900918590.html Is that a reasonable car or is something big going to pop soon?

Yes, and maybe, maybe not. I think rod bearings were an issue on some of these. I'd buy one.

The rod bearings were only an issue on the first year or two of the s54 engine. An '05 wouldn't have a that problem unless they're on the maintenance schedule

I test drove an '03 a while back and loved it. Comfy, nimble for its size, nice to look at, lots of torque. I want.

Rod Bearings are an issue on all E46 M3s. They should be replaced every 120k miles, sooner if tracked. The rod bearing issue you are thinking of was BMW's recall of the early ones because of REALLY bad rod bearing issues. Now they are not so scary, just consider it routine maintenance every 100k.

They are high maintenance cost with solid lifters, $120 DIY oil changes, alternators that like to go, Water pumps $220 (cheapest price I could find), and atrocious gas mileage for a 6 cylinder.

That said, they are great cars, and a "do it all" car it does better then most cars.

Yes, arguably overpriced because of the bodywork and because you can find ones with lower mileage for the same price.

In reply to D_Eclipse9916:

I'm used to 89-95 sho's which have rod bearings on the schedule every 60k.....so routine replacement at 120k isn't concerning to me.

What's the story on operation and upkeep of the SMG system? I've read about clunky and jerky operation at part throttle and sudden SMG pump failure without notice.

SMG sucks. Literally no reason to buy it unless you have a leg injury and can't use a clutch pedal.

Otherwise I really enjoyed my E46 M3 and wish I'd kept it.

I briefly drove an SMG e46 m3 and while i wouldn't prefer it, i would accept it if it brought the car into my price range while all the 'better' ones didn't make financial sense to me. It's not horrible.

thatsnowinnebago wrote: In reply to series8217: You aren't kidding about the cinnamon interior

God if you could sell that interior in pill form it would be used to induce vomiting. Ughghh

All S54 engines have rod bearing issues. My friend replaced the bearings in his '04 took and they didn't look good (exposed copper). Mine in my '05 looked perfect. My subframe mounts were also fine... but his frame was cracked in one place. It's probably based on how the car was driven. Beating on a motor with cold oil is the main cause of rod bearing wear in general, and with the 10W60 oil these motors use, it's particularly bad at flowing when cold. Stay under 4500 RPM until the engine oil temperature is at least 100*F.

The SMG is great once you get used to it, but it's clunky until you figure out that you need to throttle it like a normal manual if you want smooth upshifts. It also helps if it has been adapted recently (BMW dealer or indy shop can do this). The controller software is not good at adapting to clutch wear, so the full adaptation procedure needs to be repeated occasionally.

Shifting with the SMG is fast and efficient, scooting along in stop and go traffic is effortless, and on track it's an absolute beast. There are times when I wish I could have found a normal 3-pedal car (that's what I was looking for) but on a race track the SMG comes into its own and I prefer it over the manual.

The problem with the SMG is the $200 electric motor wears out in the hydraulic pump... but BMW will only sell you the whole pump assembly for $2000. Take a look at this thread on m3forum, which goes into detail about the motor rework, which is less than $300: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=413137 (you'll need to login to see the pictures)

The pump motor is not a sudden failure; you'll notice longer priming times when you unlock the car (that's when the pump pressurizes the accumulator) because the motor is getting weak. You'll also get an SMG error light for excessive run time of the pump.

They're entering that "cheap enough to not maintain" realm. The VANOS stuff is scary. My friend had one fail and I think he said parts and labor were just shy of $4k. Granted he used a dealer but still - it isn't a cheap car to maintain.

series8217 wrote: All S54 engines have rod bearing issues. My friend replaced the bearings in his '04 took and they didn't look good (exposed copper). Mine in my '05 looked perfect. My subframe mounts were also fine... but his frame was cracked in one place. It's probably based on how the car was driven. Beating on a motor with cold oil is the main cause of rod bearing wear in general, and with the 10W60 oil these motors use, it's particularly bad at flowing when cold. Stay under 4500 RPM until the engine oil temperature is at least 100*F. The SMG is great once you get used to it, but it's clunky until you figure out that you need to throttle it like a normal manual if you want smooth upshifts. It also helps if it has been adapted recently (BMW dealer or indy shop can do this). The controller software is not good at adapting to clutch wear, so the full adaptation procedure needs to be repeated occasionally. Shifting with the SMG is fast and efficient, scooting along in stop and go traffic is effortless, and on track it's an absolute beast. There are times when I wish I could have found a normal 3-pedal car (that's what I was looking for) but on a race track the SMG comes into its own and I prefer it over the manual. The problem with the SMG is the $200 electric motor wears out in the hydraulic pump... but BMW will only sell you the whole pump assembly for $2000. Take a look at this thread on m3forum, which goes into detail about the motor rework, which is less than $300: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=413137 (you'll need to login to see the pictures) The pump motor is not a sudden failure; you'll notice longer priming times when you unlock the car (that's when the pump pressurizes the accumulator) because the motor is getting weak. You'll also get an SMG error light for excessive run time of the pump.

My friend's '03 was an SMG car, but I remember the many times I drove it, when cold the lights on the tach would tell you the rpms you could go at its current temp. And that car went from a strange trans to an absolute hoot with just the CSL programming.

Nothing wrong with the SMG cars IMHO.

I know BMWs are awesome cars to drive but man I don't know if I would ever go through all of this trouble for maintenance for a car. It just doesn't seem worth it. It also falls under the "just because you can afford to buy it doesn't mean you can afford to own it" category to me.

atm92484 wrote: They're entering that "cheap enough to not maintain" realm. The VANOS stuff is scary. My friend had one fail and I think he said parts and labor were just shy of $4k. Granted he used a dealer but still - it isn't a cheap car to maintain.

How long until said $4k needs to be redone though? If the repairs last another 150k miles, that seems reasonable for the incredible performance you get with an e46 m3. Don't these cars run the 1/4 mile in 13.0 flat? For that time period, that is crazy good!

Contradiction wrote: I know BMWs are awesome cars to drive but man I don't know if I would ever go through all of this trouble for maintenance for a car. It just doesn't seem worth it. It also falls under the "just because you can afford to buy it doesn't mean you can afford to own it" category to me.

True, it's pricey, but it could be your weekend car, so you could maintain it less.

In reply to series8217: I really like the blue and red stitching more than anything else in that interior.

The subframe issue is a biggie, but there is preventive maintenance that can help prevent the issue from occurring. The VANOS is rarely an issue, and there are also preventive measures you can take there, too. Rod bearings are considered a maintenance item, but the interval is at least 100,000 miles unless you do a lot of track miles. Other than that, it's just the normal stuff that you'd have to maintain on any car. My M3 has 129,000 miles on it and the subframe is fine, the VANOS is fine, and I just replaced the entire cooling system on general principles even though it was fine. I had to fix the sunroof cover sliders, one window switch, the auto-dimming mirror, a belt idler, the windshield washer pump, and I'm in the process now of reupholstering the A/B/C pillars because the fabric is getting loose.

In almost 6 years of ownership, I've spent about $4k in maintenance and repairs (DIY), and that includes consumables like tires. I don't track the car, though.

On topic, $15k will get you really nice one but they are not going to get much cheaper unless they're really beat on.