Are first-generation Miatas really vintage race cars?

The Classic Sports Racing Group is welcoming them with an upcoming feature race: http://www.csrgracing.org/contentpage.aspx?Id=7022#ThunderhillRollingThunderMay1-3

Considering what NA values are doing, and that they're 25 years old, I say YES.

Yes and they should be. Being able to vintage race them actually makes them more interesting to me.

My mom's first car was a first-year MGB. When I was in high school, it would have been an old car.

The NA Miata is now older than that.

Pennsylvania says classic cars are 15 years old and antiques are 25.

Early Miatas now legally are antiques. Sure. Why not vintage race them.

Now if we can just do something about the old farts at cruise in night that don't think that old Japanese cars are classic or antique......

25 years old are vintage or "classic" IMO.

I remember watching looper and JGL loving his NA miata and thinking it silly but now? It seems they are reaching that status. I've been seeing a surprising lot of people buying them with "classic car" in mind now. People I know who previously would have thought them "gay" too. Now they are restoring one.

By age, yes, but it weirds out some racers running the old stuff. Also makes the rules odd since most of the vintage rules are built around the 1969 - 1972 SCCA GCR books. So a bunch of vintage groups need to tweak their rules. I would love to add on a crossflow head and FI. I'm starting to see e-30s and miatas showing up though. Some of the high dollar vintage folks cringe a bit at seeing ex spec pinata cars running next to their half million dollar ride. Then again, folks have more wrapped up in their miatas than I have in my old triumph. Maybe they should worry more about me.

oldtin wrote: By age, yes, but it weirds out some racers running the old stuff. Also makes the rules odd since most of the vintage rules are built around the 1969 - 1972 SCCA GCR books. So a bunch of vintage groups need to tweak their rules. I would love to add on a crossflow head and FI. I'm starting to see e-30s and miatas showing up though. Some of the high dollar vintage folks cringe a bit at seeing ex spec pinata cars running next to their half million dollar ride. Then again, folks have more wrapped up in their miatas than I have in my old triumph. Maybe they should worry more about me.

24 years old now I think almost ready to race with you guys in the miata's. Time flies.

kanaric wrote: 25 years old are vintage or "classic" IMO. I remember watching looper and JGL loving his NA miata and thinking it silly but now? It seems they are reaching that status. I've been seeing a surprising lot of people buying them with "classic car" in mind now. People I know who previously would have thought them "gay" too. Now they are restoring one.

They're starting to look like classic cars in other ways. Parts are going NLA. Guys are hoarding NIB floor mats

The problem is that the guys who are doing vintage racing are ageing along with their cars. But heck, there's an Audi R8 (the real one, not the road car) that's been running at the Mitty for years. That car won Le Mans a decade ago. So Spec Miatas, 15 years older, are definitely eligible.

Is that the ex-Champion Audi car? I remember seeing their car listed on ebay about 10-12 years ago, right when the R8s were no longer eligible/competitive in ALMS. IIRC it went for about $100K -- I hate to think what it's worth today. :)

So are the newest CRXs.

Keith Tanner wrote: My mom's first car was a first-year MGB. When I was in high school, it would have been an old car. The NA Miata is now older than that.

I had similar thoughts now that my 14 year old gets his permit at the end of May. My first car was made 2 years before I was born. And it was ancient ('67 Triumph GT6) in my school's parking lot. Probably because it was so different from the standard truck/ponycar ride.

Using the same scheme, his car would be something built in 1999..... A NA Miata would be even older than that. And still wouldn't look out of place on his school's parking lot.

Nothing important here, just making me think. Wondering if I'm just hitting old man status....

-Rob

rob_lewis wrote: I had similar thoughts now that my 14 year old gets his permit at the end of May. My first car was made 2 years before I was born. And it was ancient ('67 Triumph GT6) in my school's parking lot. Probably because it was so different from the standard truck/ponycar ride.

Cars last longer now than they did in the 60s and 70s.

wearymicrobe wrote:

oldtin wrote: By age, yes, but it weirds out some racers running the old stuff. Also makes the rules odd since most of the vintage rules are built around the 1969 - 1972 SCCA GCR books. So a bunch of vintage groups need to tweak their rules. I would love to add on a crossflow head and FI. I'm starting to see e-30s and miatas showing up though. Some of the high dollar vintage folks cringe a bit at seeing ex spec pinata cars running next to their half million dollar ride. Then again, folks have more wrapped up in their miatas than I have in my old triumph. Maybe they should worry more about me.

24 years old now I think almost ready to race with you guys in the miata's. Time flies.

Already antique/vintage status

Vintage racing is a lot like the "Classic Rock" format on the radio: they've been playing the same loop of Zeppelin, Allman Brothers, ZZ Top, and 38 Special for the last 30 years. Now it's time to start mixing in Nirvana, Soundgarden, and Green Day. The MGs and Spitfires need to move over for Miatas, CRXs, and E30s, for they are vintage and they are good.

It's never been a better time to be into vintage cars. Parts are still available, the Internet knows all, and they don't rust anymore.

I wanted to put antique plates on my 1990 Miata and post pics of it here, but i never registered it before trading it for a more-antique 924. I did put antique plates on my 1990 Caravan recently.

The RMVR guys sound like they would also welcome a 1990 Miata. But I'd imagine that welcome might be slightly warmer if I showed up with an MGB instead of the Miata.

Miatas are just so good that we can still compare them to modern cars.

Keith Tanner wrote: The problem is that the guys who are doing vintage racing are ageing along with their cars.

I think that's the key here. I'm 53 and attended an Alfa Romeo swap meet a few weeks ago. I was on the younger end of the spectrum. Sure there were a few 20 and 30-somethings, but it was actually kind of dispiriting, seeing old guys picking through bits and pieces. I heard someone quote $500 for a rare two-piece tailight lens. When I drive 40-plus year old cars around, many young people go "cool", but few go "I gotta get me one of those".

I think that's because our affinitys are largely wired in at a young age. People reference the music, art, cars and even the type of women that they lusted after when they were whippersnappers. If the vintage cutoff is pushed too far back, it's dinosaur time.

BlueInGreen44 wrote: Miatas are just so good that we can still compare them to modern cars.

This. After lapping with Caymens, M3s, C-6 Vettes and the like it'd feel like an unfair advantage to run a Miata against a Triumph or MG.

I think that might be what the old school guys are worried about. Obselecense.

I think that might be what the old school guys are worried about. Obsolescence.

Presumably Miatas'd be in class with cars like e30s, 944s and RX7s, not MGBs and 2002s. A 1991 cutoff opens the door to a lot of fairly modern cars.

jimbob_racing wrote: Now if we can just do something about the old fats at cruise in night that don't think that old Japanese cars are classic or antique......

Can't do anything about them, they're mostly too old and stuck in their ways.

In reply to Kreb: E30 and 944's are probably the faster of the group I assume.

For my local Vintage group, No it's not but they are in the 70's rock loop and the newest cars that can race there are 45 years old now.

I like the SVRA version of Vintage racing better. Thee is all ranges of cars there. The only thing is the car must be significant vs just being old.

trigun7469 wrote: In reply to Kreb: E30 and 944's are probably the faster of the group I assume.

I think that it depends on the track, but I've heard that spec e30s are usually the fastest, then Miatas and 944s.

I imagine that they've had similar issues in the motorcycle world, where bikes have gotten so much faster. I had a friend suffer a bad crash because they were running a sparsely attended vintage class along with the modern "battle of the Twins". My friend's braking point was much sooner due to drum brakes, and she got rear-ended with a big speed differential by someone expecting to brake 50 feet later.