Attitudes about Stick Shifts

Here are the main things about modern automatics.

-They're downright fast. The 8L90E torque converter box in the current Corvette is faster than the previous generation of Porsche's dual clutch, the newer PDKs are insanely quick, and apparently the 10 speed in the new ZL1 is an absolutely surreal experience.

-They have incredible duality. You can effortlessly negotiate stop and go traffic, and then blast down a back straightaway, cracking off shifts at alarming speed in the same car.

-They typically have better resale value. A manual gearbox can make many cars sales-proof.

-The new breed of performance cars are too fast for manual transmissions. The Ferrari Enzo made 650 horsepower in 2005, and cost $659,330 when new. You can now walk into a Chevy dealer and buy a Camaro that has the same output and costs $61,140. You can get the Camaro with a 6 speed manual, but I just wouldn't want to. 650 HP is a lot, and while you could keep a ballistic-grade mullet mobile in a straight line while you manually shift gears, that requires either a lot of trust or a lot of stupidity.

In a Miata, or an 86, or a Civic, or a Mazda 3 I would most likely choose the manual. But there comes a point where I need to step aside because the car is faster than I am.

xflowgolf wrote: The manual transmission is becoming a bit of a gentleman's relic. A choice for driver engagement that is not based on greater efficiency or the fastest laptime, but about the experience. ...and you can pry it from my cold dead hands.

I agree completely. Its a pain in the ass in traffic, It makes it tough to eat a burrito when Im driving, and it makes car shopping waaaay tougher than it needs to be (because theyre getting so damned rare), but I cannot envision myself ever being happy to sign on the dotted line for a car with only 2 pedals. The connection I have with the car is something that isnt just a passing pleasantry, its what I like about driving. If I have to face the doldrums of commuting in crappy traffic every day, I should at least enjoy the part I play in it. The car becomes an extension of me, and its not something I ever see myself NOT wanting in my daily driver.

And yes, remove yourself from my lawn before I remove yourself for you

Oh lawd, here come the PC police.

They are a dieing breed. I like my auto for my DD, and my manual for my fun car. I don't want a manual in my RV...

My sister in law (14yo) didnt know what a stick shift was....

yupididit wrote:

Trackmouse wrote: In reply to The0retical: Your daughter will grow up to be an awesome person some day. And she will embarrass and emasculate her boyfriends every time.

I dont think driving a manual or knowing how makes you more awesome or less. Nor do I think its more manly to drive them...

your opinion is wrong ...lol

I could really care less that an auto equipped PDK/DSG, whatever transmission shifts faster. McLaren isn't going to be calling me anytime soon. I prefer the engagement and feel I get rowing my own gears.

My DD/Tow vehicle is an auto and it's ok-ish, mostly because it has 550hp...

Since some here think "stigmas and stereotypes are wrong", how do you feel about a man that sits in his car while his wife or daughter changes the flat tire in the freezing cold?

ebonyandivory wrote: Bottom line: a manual is NOT old fashioned. It IS the most precise method of connecting the driver to the engine.

Wouldn't that be the throttle cable?

Trackmouse wrote: Since some here think "stigmas and stereotypes are wrong", how do you feel about a man that sits in his car while his wife or daughter changes the flat tire in the freezing cold?

Well, based on what I know about my wife (all 4'11" and 100lbs of her) I would just rather do it. Because, I'm used to doing those sort of things so it'll probably be quicker and safer for me. But, AAA and roadside assistance is something we pay for so neither of us have to . I wouldnt knock her for trying or asking to help.

yupididit wrote: Nor do I think its more manly to drive them.

Well... we can agree on that. My mother taught me to drive a stick. She was afraid my father would have an aneurysm trying to teach me because he has about as much patience as hungry badger. It was her grocery getter. A '62 Buick Skylark with 3 on the tree. Later, my grandfather refined my skills in a '74 Super Beetle.

My buddy has a 18 year old daughter. (he actually has 5 kids ) After using the "family owned and shared" 91 Cutlass to learn how to drive, she finally purchased her first car, with her own $$.

She bought an NA Miata with a manual. Yes, he's a proud Papa!

All of his kids (4 girls and 1 boy) know how to change a tire, and do basic maintenance. It's a basic stipulation before they can get their license. It's amazing how hapless the girl's boyfriends are. Fortunately because they were raised right, the girls can spot a useless boy pretty quickly, and they don't last long. It's ok if they don't know things.....it's a problem when they refuse to learn.

Parents like him give me hope for the future.

yupididit wrote:

Trackmouse wrote: In reply to The0retical: Your daughter will grow up to be an awesome person some day. And she will embarrass and emasculate her boyfriends every time.

I dont think driving a manual or knowing how makes you more awesome or less. Nor do I think its more manly to drive them. My preference in manual vs automatic is the car. Besides that, I'm completly indifferent to how I'm perceived by driving either. I think that considering people who drive manuals to be better in any shape or form than someone who cant is silly though. If my son had a gf that could drive a manual and he couldnt my reaction would be, "oh okay".

Please send this individual to reeducation camp...

my 16 yo loves the 6-speed manual Acura TL he drives. Although his other choice of car was a 5-speed BMW X-5.

As I age, I care less and less about what other people think.

Actually, there have been several documented cases of people trying to steal manual tranny cars and giving up. Works for me.

In reply to Trackmouse:

All of my vehicles have torque converters at the moment and I've changed plenty of tires. Seems like these 2 ideas aren't that related.

Brett_Murphy wrote:

ebonyandivory wrote: Bottom line: a manual is NOT old fashioned. It IS the most precise method of connecting the driver to the engine.

Wouldn't that be the throttle cable?

What's a throttle cable? You mean the wires that electrons ride between the pedal and the throttle?

Don't joke, some of the cutting edge cars have no "direct" connection from the brake pedal to the brakes - they're now brake-by-wire. I think the car was on last week's Grand Tour show.

I enjoy a well-executed heel/toe downshift (at this point they're all double-declutch because I got so much practice in a 2002 with a dying 2nd gear synchro).

It really messed with my head 'til I realized the reason I couldn't match revs with a blip in the Mini was that we were confusing each other since it auto-matches revs on downshifts...

That said, when automanuals get so good they vanish from my mind and leave me with just throttle, brake, and steering wheel, I think that'll be awesome.

Also, I now have the Metalocalypse bit about Grandpa Guitars stuck in my head, speaking of "old people stuff"...

Trackmouse wrote: Since some here think "stigmas and stereotypes are wrong", how do you feel about a man that sits in his car while his wife or daughter changes the flat tire in the freezing cold?

How a wife and husband divide roles and duties is up to them and its none of my business. Besides, you don't know everyone's story, so why make assumptions?

That said this BS overly-masculine nonsense is slowly dying out of our culture as the throwbacks go away, which is a good thing, IMO as that means that women are treated more equally.

In reply to Stefan:

Hey my wife works 40hrs like me. We divide the household chores. She knows I'm the car guy, so I handle that stuff. I totally believe in women's rights! But at the end of the day, my wife wants to be treated like a lady. And I'm the kind of knight that offers chivalry. The point is: we both know how to change a tire and jump a battery. But I would look like an idiot sitting in my car while my wife does it for me.

Trackmouse wrote: Oh lawd, here come the PC police. Since some here think "stigmas and stereotypes are wrong", how do you feel about a man that sits in his car while his wife or daughter changes the flat tire in the freezing cold?

Oh lawd, here comes the machismo brigade.

Whoever is best able to do a job, especially in a more difficult situation, should be the one to do it. If the wife or daughter happens to be more able to do so, then I have absolutely no problem with it. Of course, it seems most people these days simply like to pass judgement on others without really knowing anything about them. Having the knowledge, skill, capability, experience, aptitude, or interest to perform any given task has absolutely nothing to do with a persons 'masculinity' or 'femininity'...I will admit though, it may still affect their 'awesomeness' in my mind, if the task happens to be relevant to my interests.

In reply to Driven5:

I agree with this. All things must be considered before passing judgement. The guy sitting in the car might have one arm or something preventing him from performing the task. Or maybe his daughter is employed at a tire store. I was more referring to those with no excuse. You know, lazy ppl.

Cousin_Eddie wrote: My truck is virtually theft proof. 3 speed standard transmission with column shift. Now you damn kids get off of my lawn and take your fancy floor shift standard transmissions with you.

I find the real humor here that of this vintage, all you need is a screw driver to break the column casing near the turn signal and the engine will start with just the pull of an internal lever.

Said another way, so easy on this to overcome the ignition lock but I agree so hard for the average current criminal to actually drive it way!

In reply to Trackmouse:

A daughter that works at a tire store and a dad that never has, is pretty equivalent to a girl that drives a manual and a boyfriend that never has. Neither should "embarrass and emasculate" the guy any more than the other.

It's my opinion that anyone who wants to be more engaged in an activity as revered as driving is someone I'll have more in common with than someone who wants to be insulated from the experience.

That goes for so many things in life, not just transmissions

(Making a long traffic-ridden commute more bearable with an automatic notwithstanding)