tuna55 wrote: By the way, since it was mentioned, LATCH is not at all a requirement...
Didn't know if that was going to be an issue for you or not. Mrs. Javelin has RA so I do all the strapping and it drives me nuts.
In that case, look hard at the RWD MPV's and older Sedona's.
no to RWD MPVs, from Wiki:
Sales weren't helped when the MPV received one star out of four in the Australian Australasian New Car Assessment Program (ANCAP) crash tests and a "Marginal" rating in the American Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) crash tests for damage to the occupant compartment and tire intrusion into the driver footwell area.
mtn wrote: Sounds like you have bad driving habits or there is something wrong. Ours got 19-21 city.
Unfortunately, my wife makes 4 trips a day to/from pre-school which is about 5 miles from our house. Add in the fact that we live in a very hilly area, and the 14 MPG really isn't much of a mystery to me.
tuna55 wrote: no to RWD MPVs, from Wiki: Sales weren't helped when the MPV received one star out of four in the Australian Australasian New Car Assessment Program (ANCAP) crash tests and a "Marginal" rating in the American Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) crash tests for damage to the occupant compartment and tire intrusion into the driver footwell area.
Ouch! N/m on that one then. The 00+'s were well-regarded world-wide though. The Sedona's are freaking tanks though. I'd take on a Volvo and a garbage trucks in one of those.
It really is too big they didnt make a wagon off the 2g LH platform (intrepid et al).
$4k will buy you a pretty dang nice version of one of those cars.
As far as mpg in a van-like thing.. only thing ive found that does decent is pre-95 5spd manual caravans. Everything else maxes out in the low low 20s in real life.
Vigo wrote: It really is too big they didnt make a wagon off the 2g LH platform (intrepid et al). $4k will buy you a pretty dang nice version of one of those cars.
Hey, I am not the only person who thinks this! The trunks are huge. I even liked the 2.7L.
Vigo wrote: It really is too big they didnt make a wagon off the 2g LH platform (intrepid et al). $4k will buy you a pretty dang nice version of one of those cars. As far as mpg in a van-like thing.. only thing ive found that does decent is pre-95 5spd manual caravans. Everything else maxes out in the low low 20s in real life.
Indeed, but I would really be looking for a three row car ideally, anyway. It seems like there should be more of them about...
Caravans are 3 row.. or 1, or 2.. anywhere from 2 to 8 seaters depending on which seats you leave in/out.
But i dont know how they fit into the safety picture. I would say generally they are pretty safe in the front but i dont know about side impact. I know for a fact there isnt a whole lot of structure in some places (= light = mpg).
3 row vehicles are tricky. I have a friend with a durango r/t who would like to get more than 10 mpg, but doesnt want a van.. and of the few options that remain at that point, none have so far been appealing enough to go through the hassle of seeking one out and buying it and selling the durango.
Speaking of Durango, some are 3 row and if you get a 3.9L (acceleration will not be its forte) it should get 20-21 on the highway. 
Today i recommended he check out mid-90s and later monteros for a 3 row that might get 20 mpg. But if you are open to vans.. there is no point in considering anything truck based imo.
So we went to Carmax to look about and to get an appraisal on the Freestyle.
Freestyle = $3k
My options are back at three rows only. Especially after looking at the minivans offered by dodge from 2008+. I may be willing to save for those. It seems as if the MPVs are a bit small, the 5 is WAY TOO SMALL, and the Sienne/Ody offer nothing over the dodges.
One wildcard. The 2nd gen Ody with the terrible transmission, 1999-2004, can that be swapped for a stick shift out of some Accord without too much pain? They have 90% of the utility of the 2008 Dodges but they are crazy cheap because of the transmission. I could land one easily for 4K and do a tranny swap. I know that one competed in one lap of America, but I think those guys were actually Honda engineers, so they may have a few resources that I dot have access to.
Anyone?
I think that you're going to have to sacrifice something here. You're wanting a cheap car that gets 30mpg in town, can comfortably fit 2 adults, 3 car seats, and a big dog, and has high crash ratings. You've already learned that your options are very limited.
If the Freestyle has worked for this long, why not keep letting it do its job if money is such a concern?
So you're going to dump one tranny-eating car to buy... a tranny-eating car? Sorry man, I don't follow.
I think the 08+ Dodge's are the best match for you, so spend the money and get it. Some things are worth a little debt, and a reliable, safe, car for the family is definitely one of them.
Javelin wrote: So you're going to dump one tranny-eating car to buy... a tranny-eating car? Sorry man, I don't follow. I think the 08+ Dodge's are the best match for you, so spend the money and get it. Some things are worth a little debt, and a reliable, safe, car for the family is *definitely* one of them.
Yeah, I have to agree with this.
I am asking, basically, if it's easier to swap a manual transmission into a 2nd gen odyssey than it is to swap into a Freestyle. Either one, as is stock, has a time bomb type transmission.
I know not on your list year wise, but we have a 2006 Sienna,and it may be one of the best vehicles we have ever owned. Very comfortable, and quiet, plus it has been super reliable. It doesn't hurt that is has plenty of horsepower for a mini van. Oh, and there really isn't anything mini about it. I can only assume the older ones were just as nice, and reliable, if not maybe a bit smaller, and less refined.
If the Kia Rondo is too small, then the Kia Sedona is ideal. If neither of those vehicles work for you, then you need to change your criteria.
tuna55 wrote: I am asking, basically, if it's easier to swap a manual transmission into a 2nd gen odyssey than it is to swap into a Freestyle. Either one, as is stock, has a time bomb type transmission.
Sit in an Ody, and think about how you will route the shifting stuff, clutch pedal and all that great stuff. Now sit in the Freestyle and do the same thing. I'd imagine that it's not easy in either of them, but I'd give the nod to the Ody. Basically.
rotard wrote:tuna55 wrote: I am asking, basically, if it's easier to swap a manual transmission into a 2nd gen odyssey than it is to swap into a Freestyle. Either one, as is stock, has a time bomb type transmission.Sit in an Ody, and think about how you will route the shifting stuff, clutch pedal and all that great stuff. Now sit in the Freestyle and do the same thing. I'd imagine that it's not easy in either of them, but I'd give the nod to the Ody. Basically.
I am more worried about the ECM connecting with the transmission. The Freestyle has an electronic throttle body, which complicates things....
The Toyota Rav4 has a three row model- I doubt you'll find it for $5000 though.
-Hamid
tuna55 wrote:rotard wrote:I am more worried about the ECM connecting with the transmission. The Freestyle has an electronic throttle body, which complicates things....tuna55 wrote: I am asking, basically, if it's easier to swap a manual transmission into a 2nd gen odyssey than it is to swap into a Freestyle. Either one, as is stock, has a time bomb type transmission.Sit in an Ody, and think about how you will route the shifting stuff, clutch pedal and all that great stuff. Now sit in the Freestyle and do the same thing. I'd imagine that it's not easy in either of them, but I'd give the nod to the Ody. Basically.
I'm sure you can use Accord stuff to make it easy on the Ody. I'm not sure what you'd have to do about the shifter and stuff, though.
Something like that:
http://greenville.craigslist.org/ctd/2742753418.html
?
AverageH wrote: The Toyota Rav4 has a three row model- I doubt you'll find it for $5000 though. -Hamid
The third row is TINY!
and you'd be lucky to get a recent rav4 for less than 10k, last i checked.
jrw1621 wrote: Look into Buick Rendezvous. A Mini-van cross over type vehicle that is typical GM (both good and bad.) They offer a large center bench and can do a third row as well.
^^ This.
Or really any of the GM minivans. My parents bought a Oldsmobile Silhouette new in 1997, when I was about 12. They still have it. The combination of 3400/4l60e appears to be absolutely un-killable, as they've pretty much had no unplanned mechanical work done to the thing. Skip the power sliding door, as it turns the sliding door into a zillion-pound behemoth. The only thing wrong with that van now is that the interior lights (gauge cluster/radio) turn off when the headlights turn on.
why anyone would recommend a gm 3400/4t60 combo over a chrysler 3.3 or 3.8/604 combo is.. beyond me. 
The 3.3/3.8 is way more reliable and VASTLY easier to work on. The 604 is similarly reliable when stock but becomes VERY reliable with a few simple steps.
Honestly, if you are super worried about the transmission, find a chrysler van that ALREADY has a broken transmission and good everything else, and buy it for almost nothing. Then, have a proper rebuild done on it, with a nice big external cooler, and dont worry about it any more.
Vigo wrote: why anyone would recommend a gm 3400/4t60 combo over a chrysler 3.3 or 3.8/604 combo is.. beyond me.
+1.
I would own a 3.4/3.5/3.8/3.9 powered 4T60E GM in a heartbeat too... The 4T60E has been broken so many times by everyone that it is almost a backyard rebuildable.... You can even do a rebuild IN CAR with the special tools.......
But really, for all the problems that people bitch about with the Caravan A604/42TE trans, I have rebuilt ONE in almost 4 years of dealership wrenching. The GM trans guy saw one a week of either 4T60E or 4L60E flavor....
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