tuna55 wrote: One more, a GC and T&C can carry a flat 4x8 in the cargo area. I don't know if the others can.
Dunno...never really tried in the Sedona. Not much of a handyman myself. Ours is more resigned to carrying kids, pool toys, football gear, long lacrosse sticks, the occasional piece of furniture, E36 M3 from Costco that my wife thinks we need, and luggage. 
We just snagged a 2011 Caravan with the Pentastar/6-speed, stow and go, yadda, yadda...
That thing friggin' MOVES!!! The gear ratios in the transmission are spaced perfectly for acceleration.
Now I'm thinking about buying a '15+ Charger with the Pentastar/8-speed combo in a few years...maybe. 
If you shop hard you can find a 2015 Sedona LX just at the top of your budget. They're a much newer platform and are built a lot more solidly than the mopar twins. Drive one and see if you love it?
The_Jed wrote: We just snagged a 2011 Caravan with the Pentastar/6-speed, stow and go, yadda, yadda... That thing friggin' MOVES!!! The gear ratios in the transmission are spaced perfectly for acceleration. Now I'm thinking about buying a '15+ Charger with the Pentastar/8-speed combo in a few years...maybe.
Having just driven the new Pacifica with the Penta and 8 speed auto---- yes it's a good combo. I love my 14 Grand Caravan, but the 8 speed gearbox in the new vans & Durangos is exceptionally nice. Makes my trans feel crude by comparison.
Oh yeah.......and I used the Stow and Go again this weekend----- always amazes me how useful and versatile this thing is!
In reply to Joe Gearin:
You want crude? Try my '08 with the archaic 4 spd auto.
The_Jed wrote: We just snagged a 2011 Caravan with the Pentastar/6-speed, stow and go, yadda, yadda... That thing friggin' MOVES!!! The gear ratios in the transmission are spaced perfectly for acceleration. Now I'm thinking about buying a '15+ Charger with the Pentastar/8-speed combo in a few years...maybe.
I dunno. I just got off a 2 week rental (my business trips are long) with a brand new (400 miles) 300S. P-star and 8 spd. Not slow by any means but I feel like that '11 GC I had would have smoked it. Maybe it's because it isn't broken in yet?
Also, my Wrangler Rubicon is Pentastar with a 6 speed manual. 4.10 gears. That thing is border-line slow. Maybe some efficiency is lost when converting the crankshaft rotation 90 degrees for rear drive?
A 401 CJ wrote:The_Jed wrote: We just snagged a 2011 Caravan with the Pentastar/6-speed, stow and go, yadda, yadda... That thing friggin' MOVES!!! The gear ratios in the transmission are spaced perfectly for acceleration. Now I'm thinking about buying a '15+ Charger with the Pentastar/8-speed combo in a few years...maybe.I dunno. I just got off a 2 week rental (my business trips are long) with a brand new (400 miles) 300S. P-star and 8 spd. Not slow by any means but I feel like that '11 GC I had would have smoked it. Maybe it's because it isn't broken in yet?
Or cuz it's an off-roader built for the trail (Rubicon??) as opposed to the drag strip?
Thanks for all the input!
As this will be a kid AND "stuff" hauler, I'm thinking the GC/T&C is the hot ticket.
My parents and sister both have newer GCs, love them and somehow haven't managed to break them.
That thing friggin' MOVES!!! The gear ratios in the transmission are spaced perfectly for acceleration.
Only until you get to highway speeds and have to shift to 4th. I've brought it up multiple times and i hate to sound like i'm a downer on it but the 3-4 upshift is so slow and such a severe drop in rpm that while it's happening you may wonder if you just broke the transmission, and when it's over you went from a fast van to a slow van. I agree the vans are great from ~0-70 or so, but their acceleration after that is poor. I've taken an older ~240hp Odyssey to 105 or so and thought it was more fun in the 70+ range.
Also, my Wrangler Rubicon is Pentastar with a 6 speed manual. 4.10 gears. That thing is border-line slow. Maybe some efficiency is lost when converting the crankshaft rotation 90 degrees for rear drive?
Well, RWDs have much more parasitic loss in the driveline than FWDs do, but i think the tire/wheel weight of a rubicon is a bigger difference than the driveline weight in this case. Is yours a 4-dr? One of the magazines tested a 3.6/6spd Wrangler at 15.3 in the 1/4 mile, which is actually much better than the caravans. If yours is an Unlimited (4dr) with the biggest stock tires you could get on a Wrangler, there's your problem right there. There's only so much an n/a 3.6 can do in a 4800lb vehicle that ALSO has 70lb wheels/tires. 
In reply to tuna55:
Thanks for posting this. This is honestly one of the requirement I look for in a minivan/wagon/suv. A oval kart has to fit in the cargo area with the door shut.
In reply to Vigo:
Yep. 4 door. I feel like I'd be lucky to break 17 seconds in the quarter in that thing. Not why I bought it so I don't care. The wheels, however, are aluminum and they don't feel all that heavy. That BFG Mud Terrain is a little porky though.
When I wrote that about rear drives, I was meaning in general. Not just the Rubicon. Hertz has given me a few 300's and some other Jeep contraption thingy with the Penty and 8 speed. None could hold a candle to that first van.
I agree with one of the other posters. The first crack is free 
Edit: I think back to that first van and remember it fondly. I had had to haul some lab equipment up to Albany. I was headed back home on I81 just before the Susquehanna River bridge and I had been behind this joker in an F150. Not the 5.0 or the Ecoboost but the prior generation. He was being a left lane bandit and I could see him glaring at me in his side mirror. He didn't like that I wanted him out of my way. Anyway, I don't usually pass on the right but I'd had enough. His giant loud dual pipes and assault weapon and right wing stickers were starting to rub me wrong. It's not that I'm a lefty pinko, I just don't try to shout my politics from on high and don't feel others should either. The tree huggers irk me equally. So naturally as I headed for the right lane to beat him to the next truck he nailed it. BWAAAAAA!!!! said the V8 Ford. I nailed that GC to the carpet, the tach went to 6k immediately and it was not even a close race. I left that poor sod buster in his tracks....
drainoil wrote:A 401 CJ wrote: I bought my Jeep Wrangler based on the performance of a rented Pentastar Caravan. Holy mother of moo moo that thing would haul as$. Unfortunately neither my Wrangler or subsequent Caravans and TC's would boogie as well. I don't know if that first one was just a ringer or if it had shorter gears or a looser torq converter or just what. I've even had Pentastar 300's and Challengers that wouldn't run as good as that van did. Not that any of them were pokey, they just didn't quite rip as well above 5K.I bought my 2015 Grand Caravan based on a prior rental of a 2011 model which also "ripped" to the point of really putting a smile on my face. That '11 must have been geared differently from my '15 as I was able to catch rubber several times driving that one. I particularly remember catching rubber powering out of a clover leaf, and yes it was dry pavement
its usually right next too the battery but certain years the tube comes up under the battery tray. Black tube with a rubber plug, chrysler and several other companys make a dipstick that has actual measurements. Its so many mm of fluid based on the trans temp.
In reply to Vigo:
I've seen you mention this before, but it's not really my experience with my 2012 T&C. The 6-speed transmission is not my favorite part of the vehicle, but I can't say it really bogs anywhere or hesitates too much to shift.
I just spent a long weekend on the back roads of western PA and I admit I used the manumatic to hold it in 4th or 5th going up and down the steeper grades. Down in 4th for engine braking and up in 5th to stop it from hunting in and out of 6th all the time. But other than that it was fine.
I tried to stow and go a seat in a rental a month ago. I got one seat about 5/8th into the floor but no farther and then couldn't figure out how to get it all the way down or back up. I was just glad it was just me so nobody had to sit in the back. I was thinking they would be magical like the rear seats in a Honda Fit, but apparently designed by the team that created wrangler soft tops 20 years ago. Other than my failure to fold a seat it was a nice minivan. I was pleasantly surprised overall.
Duke wrote: In reply to Vigo: I've seen you mention this before, but it's not really my experience with my 2012 T&C. The 6-speed transmission is not my favorite part of the vehicle, but I can't say it really bogs anywhere or hesitates too much to shift. I just spent a long weekend on the back roads of western PA and I admit I used the manumatic to hold it in 4th or 5th going up and down the steeper grades. Down in 4th for engine braking and up in 5th to stop it from hunting in and out of 6th all the time. But other than that it was fine.
His experience says "Econ" was on.
Vigo wrote:That thing friggin' MOVES!!! The gear ratios in the transmission are spaced perfectly for acceleration.Only until you get to highway speeds and have to shift to 4th. I've brought it up multiple times and i hate to sound like i'm a downer on it but the 3-4 upshift is so slow and such a severe drop in rpm that while it's happening you may wonder if you just broke the transmission, and when it's over you went from a fast van to a slow van
Agreed, that's my main gripe with our 12 TC. Not that I really romp on it that often, but it does make freeway on ramps a bit frustrating.
Also, big brakes are 2013+ but the caliper and rotor swap is pretty cheap and easy. I just upgraded the fronts on mine to the HD spec. Stops much better and I shouldn't have to worry about warping rotors any more.
Just to add to this. We are a family of two T&Cs
a 2005 with 209,000 trouble free miles (It's just dissolving to rust)
a 2010 with 77,000 miles and have towed a camper all over New England and the midwest with it.
+1 on stow and go not being comfortable. I did Philly to scranton between the second and third row a few years back. Not great. I've also been burned by Chrysler reliability in the past, so I would trust the Koreans before a Chrysler product.
In reply to Brian:
I've driven from GR, MI to Pensacola, FL straight through no problems. 6 people, 15 Hours.
chandlerGTi wrote:Duke wrote: In reply to Vigo: I've seen you mention this before, but it's not really my experience with my 2012 T&C. The 6-speed transmission is not my favorite part of the vehicle, but I can't say it really bogs anywhere or hesitates too much to shift.His experience says "Econ" was on.
That's a very plausible theory.
No negatives that can't be applied to any other minivan. The only caution I have is to make your MUST HAVE list and check each one off for each van you look at. The sales model for Dodge and Chrysler for many years was to offer maximum customization of options that could be done without the Mfg guys storming the sales strategy office. So you can have what seems to be a totally maxed out option Caravan without automatic HVAC.
Also add in the VW Routan into your search which is a Chrysler/Dodge minivan built for VW. It does not have 2nd row stow n Go though.
T.J. wrote: I tried to stow and go a seat in a rental a month ago. I got one seat about 5/8th into the floor but no farther and then couldn't figure out how to get it all the way down or back up. I was just glad it was just me so nobody had to sit in the back. I was thinking they would be magical like the rear seats in a Honda Fit, but apparently designed by the team that created wrangler soft tops 20 years ago. Other than my failure to fold a seat it was a nice minivan. I was pleasantly surprised overall.
Once you learn the correct sequence, stowing the seats or raising them is extremely easy. (mine even has numbered straps which correlate to the steps. About the biggest hassle is moving the front buckets forward to make room for the rear buckets to fold down. (on the T&C it's motorized I believe)
You may have had something stuck in the bin beneath the seat. I can pop all seats up, or fold them all down in less than 5 minutes. It's extremely easy, and the floor is totally flat when the seats are stowed.
Joe Gearin wrote:T.J. wrote: I tried to stow and go a seat in a rental a month ago. I got one seat about 5/8th into the floor but no farther and then couldn't figure out how to get it all the way down or back up. I was just glad it was just me so nobody had to sit in the back. I was thinking they would be magical like the rear seats in a Honda Fit, but apparently designed by the team that created wrangler soft tops 20 years ago. Other than my failure to fold a seat it was a nice minivan. I was pleasantly surprised overall.Once you learn the correct sequence, stowing the seats or raising them is extremely easy. (mine even has numbered straps which correlate to the steps. About the biggest hassle is moving the front buckets forward to make room for the rear buckets to fold down. (on the T&C it's motorized I believe) You may have had something stuck in the bin beneath the seat. I can pop all seats up, or fold them all down in less than 5 minutes. It's extremely easy, and the floor is totally flat when the seats are stowed.
At Home Depot, with no kids, some plywood, and some bare cabinets, I went from four kids carseats to everything is in the van, in less than ten minutes total. I have never had an issue other than when my kids throw colored pencils and/or crayons in the latches.
We just picked up a T&C rental yesterday. Stowing the seats takes a little more muscle than I was expecting, but man what a neat feature.
My family hauls kids in carseats 99% of the time, not plywood, so stow-and-go wasn't on our must-have list when shopping for our Sedona. But if you're looking for a van for it's cargo utility the Caravan/T&C are pretty impressive.
You'll need to log in to post.
