Best Auto-X Pads? (Again)

Hey all, so I've read through a few of the older threads on the topic of brake pads, but wanted to ask about the particular situation of auto-x pads for the RX-8. The car stops very well from the factory, but racing in C-Stock I'd like to get the last little bit out of the braking system since there are so few modifications allowed.

The biggest thing I'd like to get is just a little more initial bite - brake fade is definitely not a problem. I also have a little trouble keeping the tires right at the edge of traction under hard braking so easier modulation would also be great (not a big deal though since the ABS just kicks in if I go too far).

Generally, when we're racing I have a co-driver, so I can do my runs with the pads at least a little warm (after at least one run from the co-driver). Just to give a little more info, the car weighs right around 3000 lbs and I run 275 or 285 mm wide Hoosier A6s front and back.

The car will also be daily driven with these pads, at least during auto-x season, so brake noise and dust is a minor concern, but not a big issue and definitely something I can live with.

So, what say you all? Also, any idea what folks are running on the nationally-competitive cars?

Oh, one additional thing to bring up, I find that the rear end comes around more than I like during hard trail braking, but otherwise I really like the way the suspension setup works. I was thinking about only replacing the front pads and leaving the rears OEM. Any thoughts on how this might affect the trail braking?

Thanks!

I have had great experience with performance friction Z rated brake pads. I've run them on my 3300lb firebird with hankook rs2 tires, they've held up through AutoX,track days,and drift events. I used brembo blank rotors. ATE Gold fluid.

I've always been happy with Hawk HPS. I've seen some threads complaining about quality issues with them, but they've always been good to me. They are pretty reasonable in terms of dust and noise for a DD vehicle. Also, I believe they faired pretty well when GRM tested them on their MX-5 in terms of combined stopping power and ease of modulation.

It'll sound strange, but i REALLY like Axxis Metal Masters because of the awesome initial bite.

Other than that, i also like EBC Yellows, but they have to be hot first.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: It'll sound strange, but i REALLY like Axxis Metal Masters because of the awesome initial bite.

i don't have a ton of experience comparing pads, but i like my metal masters on my '94 miata.

i mostly chose them because they were one of the few semi-mets that we can order at the napa store where i work. but they really have turned out pretty good.

Hmmm, I put Metal Masters on the integra for the first time this year and I have to say I'm a little disappointed. Perhaps that's because I'm used to the Axxis Ultimates, but I kinda expected a bit more from them. They're noisy, but have considerably less stopping power than the Ults. At least they dust less.

That said, I think they're a good bang-for-the buck DD pad (half the cost of Ultimates IIRC). I'm just not sure I'd consider them competitive pads for autocross.

I'd also look at Porterfield R4S. They're even more expensive than Ultimates, but I think they may be a better pad from everything I've read.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: It'll sound strange, but i REALLY like Axxis Metal Masters because of the awesome initial bite.

Another vote for these. Great on the 325i other than one of the front ones is now squealing, which is a bit annoying. $50 total for both axles so I am quite happy with that purchase. Fairly low dust too. They seem very linear and more fade resistant than the other semi-metallic pads I've tried. Some of that may just be the fact they are on a car with better brakes to begin with.

I've had HPS pads on the front of my Saturn and Geo, and they were okay--a bit too grabby/aggressive/non-linear. Quite dusty, but not as bad as EBC Greenstuffs. The Centric Stop Tech Performance Street pads on my Sienna seem to be similar. They definitely work well in that application--$50 for the one axle. But the front wheels do get coated black quickly.

Matt B wrote: Hmmm, I put Metal Masters on the integra for the first time this year and I have to say I'm a little disappointed. Perhaps that's because I'm used to the Axxis Ultimates, but I kinda expected a bit more from them. They're noisy, but have considerably less stopping power than the Ults. At least they dust less. That said, I think they're a good bang-for-the buck DD pad (half the cost of Ultimates IIRC). I'm just not sure I'd consider them competitive pads for autocross. I'd also look at Porterfield R4S. They're even more expensive than Ultimates, but I think they may be a better pad from everything I've read.

The R4S is what i'm running on the Escort. Full review to come when the car moves under its own power in a decade or two.

I don't think i'd expect a National-level car to run Metal Masters, but for the price, they're incredibly good, in my opinion. I bought 3 sets for the MX6 @ $40 for all four corners. So i'm good for a lifetime, i think.

Matt B wrote: Hmmm, I put Metal Masters on the integra for the first time this year and I have to say I'm a little disappointed. Perhaps that's because I'm used to the Axxis Ultimates, but I kinda expected a bit more from them. They're noisy, but have considerably less stopping power than the Ults. At least they dust less.

shouldn't the metal masters dust more? the Ultimates are ceramic.

i put them on with some fresh rotors as well. i know 'quiet' isn't usually a feature of semi-metallic pads, but mine have never made a peep.

Carbotech AX6......I've seen them in action on 11.6" brakes doing what my 13" pbr's did with stock cobra pads.....

Project Mu......... http://www.project-mu.co.jp/en/products/index.html - full product line

US distributor - http://www.mackinindustries.com/md/projectmu/projectmu.html

belteshazzar wrote: shouldn't the metal masters dust more? the Ultimates are ceramic. i put them on with some fresh rotors as well. i know 'quiet' isn't usually a feature of semi-metallic pads, but mine have never made a peep.

You would think so, but no. The Ultimates dust like a mofo! lol

Well worth it IMHO, even for a street car. They have MUCH better initial bite than the Metal Masters, plus better modulation. The wife even prefers them, dust-n-all. Price wise they're usually around $50-$70 per axle, which is still a helluva lot cheaper than the "serious" competition pads like Porterfield, Ferodo, Carbotech, etc. For me, they're the sweet spot between performance and price.

For what it's worth, my pads comparisons have all been done on late 90's integras. Daily driven and autocrossed.

i'm not finding hardly any price difference between the metal masters and the ultimates. i instinctively ordered the semi-mets, but maybe i need to step up.

anyone have trouble changing compound (ceramic->semimet, or semimet -> ceramic) without swapping rotors too?

In reply to belteshazzar: Full retail they're might not be a big difference, depending upon application I guess. It's been pretty easy to find Metal Masters on sale though, compared to the Ultimates. I think I got my last set for the integra on closeout from Rockauto for $20/axle.

Also curious about swapping between compound types on the same rotors. Probably going to put Ultimates back on before the MM's wear out.

i get pads for a small percentage over wholesale at the auto parts store where i work. it's a $3 difference.

Hawk HPS work great. Never had a problem with dust. Don't try the HP+ pads unless you get a chance to warm them up.

iceracer wrote: Hawk HPS work great. Never had a problem with dust. Don't try the HP+ pads unless you get a chance to warm them up.

I have had the same experience. HP+ sqealed and dusted like crazy, I have the HPS and they are great. I used KVR Brake pads/ rotors on my tow van and could not have been happier. Never faded in all of my abuse and not too bad on dust either.

I really like Hawk HP+ on the front of my Camaro, and HPS on the rear.

belteshazzar wrote: i get pads for a small percentage over wholesale at the auto parts store where i work. it's a $3 difference.

That's cool - mind ordering a set of Ultimates for me?

I've used OEM, Hawk, StopTech, Performance Friction and Porterfield. Best of those was clearly the Porterfields.

Which compound?

I've had pretty good results with Carbotech

I use CarboTech on the Miata. Did have AX6 front, 1521 rear. Decreased stopping distance dramatically but also was very easy to lock the front up and flat spot tires. Now have 1521 front and rear and they work great, decreased stopping distance, better feel and no flat spotting.
Use Hawk HPS on the RX8 and they work as advertised, very well.

I'm running a slightly more hardcore setup on my Miata compared to wlkelley, I've got XP8 front with AX6 rear, the bite is incredible and they will just about stand the car on it's nose even on 440 treadwear 185/65-R14 all-seasons, but it will definitely lock up a 205-section half-tread Kumho V710 on the front without much effort if you aren't careful on hard braking. for autocross use, I'd have to recommend Carbotech AX6 compound front and rear, or maybe run the 1521 on the rear, but I would be tempted to keep the same pad compound front and rear and either adjust your driving to the tail-happy-under-braking trait, or try to tune it out with other setup changes (stiffer front bar or softer rear bar? extra compression dampening up front or less rebound dampening at the rear? run wheel spacers at the front but not the rear to bring the front track width wider than the rear? autocross on a full tank of gas or put ballast between the fore/aft CG and the rear of the car, to get more weight on the rear end? more toe-in at the rear?)

the Carbotech XP10 is what I've been using for the track ( STS prepped CRX w/4pt roll bar ) and just leave them in for a-x ... the only wheel locking problems I tend to run into is the rears when I've left the braking a bit late at the end of a long straight-away ... and occasionally while a-x'ing when I've really overdriven the car