07 Mini cooper S
AutoX Rookie
Ran my first event Sun, I was surprised to find I was the only Mini pilot present. So no speed secrets to steal.
I'm looking at getting some 200TW tires on light wheels (2nd set).
Has 17" wheels and runflats (no grip) any gains going to 18"
Rules say 1" over or under, Some came with 16"
So I could use from a 15" to an 18" wheel.
In 17" Tire Rack offers only Yokohama with AA traction rating ADVAN NEOVA AD08 R - SIZE: 205/45R17
Any tips?
Don't forget that they must also technically be same width and within 6mm offset.
I'd go with the size that has the best tire availability. That looks to be the stock 17x7 in my estimation.
An AA tire will not necessarily out autox an A tire.
"An AA tire will not necessarily out autox an A tire."
Does this have to do with manners? Like a lower traction rated tire might be more forgiving by sliding some first (giving warning) before entering the spin cycle?
I think it's mainly because the temp/traction/treadwear ratings are all determined by the manufacturers themselves vs any independent testing standards.
The wheel is just the thing that goes in the middle of the tire. Start from the contact patch and work in. That means pick your tire and size first.
Also, unless you're trying to save wear on your street tires, don't mess with the car after your first event. The weakest link is you! Keep the car consistent and learn to drive it faster. It's not as sexy as new wheels, but it's a lot more rewarding.
If you NEED tires then there are a few things to look at.
1. Availability. What is available in each rim size?
2. What are you trying to fix? Is the gearing too short, is the contact patch too small, Etc.
3. What can I afford? Is $200 a tire doable for a season + the cost of the rims or Is my budget really only $100 a tire.
As a rookie, tires are really very little concern. Learn to drive and understand what the car needs. I know when I started I didn't get good tires till the 3rd year.
There should be some good info from the day as mini's were very popular but a lot would be focused on R compound tires.
bentwrench said:"An AA tire will not necessarily out autox an A tire."
Does this have to do with manners? Like a lower traction rated tire might be more forgiving by sliding some first (giving warning) before entering the spin cycle?
It's because that's purely a rating of a tire's ability to stop on wet pavement at normal ambient temperatures. Ie completely irrelevant to autocross situations.
To elaborate on what keith said, you want to start with looking at tire width and diameter (outer diameter, not the size of the wheel it goes on) decide what you want there, then figure out what wheel size works best. On diameter, a smaller diameter will lower the car's center of gravity and provide for better acceleration, but lower top speeds, which could cause issues depending on the mini's gearing. On width...well, wider is better generally, but at some point you'll run into fitment issues if you go too wide.
It's more than just tire width and diameter - you may want to pick a less-than-ideal size in order to get the tire you want.
In reply to bentwrench :
The Tire Rack said:
UTQG Traction Grades are based on the tire's straight line wet coefficient of traction as the tire skids across the specified test surfaces. The UTQG traction test does not evaluate dry braking, dry cornering, wet cornering, or high speed hydroplaning resistance.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=48
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Yes, that too. The ideal size may just not exist (particularly in 16" rim diameter) at all or in the "right" tire for the application as well. I didn't want to get too complicated all at once.
I'd start by saying "here are the tires I'd like to use". Then I'd see what sizes they come in, and which one would be the best fit. It's why Miata people used to use the 195/60-14 Falken RT-215 way back when, because it was cheap and sticky and made primarily out of concrete so the sidewalls were stiff. Didn't matter that it was too tall and what that did to the CoG or gearing. Not the "right" size, but the right tire.
So, not too complicated:
Choose tire
Look at available sizes
Decide on one that is the least compromised
Pick a wheel that fits in the hole in the middle of the tire
The Fiesta also comes with 17" wheels. I went with a 16" RFP1 to save some weight and stay in a street class. I am finding that the combination of width/sidewall/price that I want is hard to find. A 17" wheel would give me more options.
I would look at what the widest tire and ideal sidewall height is for the Mini and see what is available in the RE71r, Rival S, A052 and RT660. Then set your priorities. As an example, the Bridgestone is available at Costco at much less than the others. Costco offers the 205 for $100+ less than the 215 for a set, so how important is that extra width? One brand may offer what other Mini users consider the ideal size, but it may not be a brand that offer contingencies.
I have played with larger diameters and smaller diameters, but in the end, Ford and BMW probably put a lot of thought into the suspension design and staying with an OEM diameter is probably a good idea for a stock car and a beginner autocrosser. Going from a all-season tire to a 200TW will make a HUGE difference. Adjust to that then worry about smaller details.
I'm still a novice and the best advice that one of the best instructors gave on tires is run a harder than allowed. Learn to drive first.
Did you search by the car or the tire size? I found RE-71s in 205/45/17 at Tire Rack.
205/45/17 Extreme Performance Summer tires:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?zip-code=95020&width=205/&ratio=45&diameter=17&rearWidth=205/&rearRatio=45&rearDiameter=17
I think your wheel size choices are limited by trim too, not just whatever was available on your Mini. Like, if the trim package on your particular car only came with 17s, I think you can only drop down to a 16" wheel (or up to an 18") to follow the exact stock rules.
I can only say that good 16" tires are in limited supply.
Autocross advice,
Study the track map in a quite place, try to memorize it. Now go walk the track, look at the surface. A parking lot might look flat but it rarely is. There will be ups and down parts sometimes its subtle. When you get to the finish turn around and walk it in reverse. Ignore the " you're going the wrong direction" comments. You will notice differences in the track surface going backwards. When you get to the start, walk it forward again and put everything you saw together, bumps, gravel, apexes, turn in, etc. I prefer to walk it alone. Don't need to hear some motor mouth rambling on about some bs. You want to memorize and learn the course. Then sit in your car after walking and run the course in your head with your eyes closed. Start a stopwatch at the start line and stop it at the finish. With practice you should be within a second of your actual run time.
Depending on the car, sometimes it's better to start in second gear to avoid a 1-2 shift in middle of a turn or slalom. First run is more of a feel out the course style, run 8-9/10ths. Second run go for it, it's ok to hit a cone or two, because you are driving at the limit or more. Hitting a cone ruins the run so it doesn't matter if you hit three cones. One at each apex of the quickest corners, testing how close you cut the corner. Plus hitting cones gives the corner workers something to do. Ha! Third run get as close to the cones as possible but don't hit them. Forth run same thing. Those should be your quickest runs.
Be smooth not spectacular.
That wasn't much help with your original question but....
You can only go +/- 1" on the wheels that came on your car, unless the "package" your car came with could be ordered with a line-item option for a second size. The wheels must be the same width of whatever was available with your car (see above) and the offset must be +/- 7mm. With those limitations, your choices must take into account what tires you want, how the change in wheel/tire size affect gearing, If a smaller tire gives you better use of power, that's good. If a larger diameter gives you a better choice of tires or a wider rim, that's good. Your job is to start out confused, join forums or Facebook groups and ask questions of other Mini drivers with more autocross experience before spending hard-earned money. Until then just concentrate on having fun on the cheap at autocross!
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