putting my saab 900 back together.. I have the lowering springs, but I am after shocks. I can get both Bilstien HDs and Koni Reds.. I am not looking for a rock hard, running on rails, kinda a ride (I have the BMW for that) but something sporty, yet comfortible enough for the G/F not to need a sports bra to ride in.
I am leaning towards the Konis
For those that must know.. this 900 Turbo is an 87.. but running 91 suspension and 16 inch Aero rims and tyres instead of the stock 15s
Koni's.
mad_machine wrote: putting my saab 900 back together.. I have the lowering springs, but I am after shocks. I can get both Bilstien HDs and Koni Reds.. I am not looking for a rock hard, running on rails, kinda a ride (I have the BMW for that) but something sporty, yet comfortible enough for the G/F not to need a sports bra to ride in.
From what you describe... I'd say the Bilsteins....
I'm rocking a set of Bilsteins on my All-Trac and the dampening is nice, firm, and yet comfortable
Konis on track, Bilsteins on the road.
My .02c
I put Koni SAs (yellow) on my wife's 325iX wagon and it made such a difference that even the mrs. noticed. The reason I did this was I had put Bilstein HDs on the rear the spring prior and both were blown out by the following spring and I wasn't keen on doing the job every year so... I went with what took all the abuse on my other cars for years without complaint.
I would go Bilstein over Koni Reds. If you were looking at Yellows, then either would be a good choice. I prefer Bilsteins myself but Koni Yellows would be my next choice.
Based on what you're looking for I'd go with the Bilsteins.
From my experience of various cars and various shocks, but never a SAAB, I will never put Koni on a street driven car unless it's the only choice, where Bilstein will always be my first choise. Why? Because ever Koni shock I've driven seems to have way too much rebound damping making the ride incredibly harsh. If you 16 years old and harsh = sporty then Koni is for you. If on the other hand you have any interest in even the most rudimentary level of ride comfort then walk, na run away. This opionion is biased by the crappy Michigan roads, if you live where they have smooth roads the result might be different.
I think it really comes down to how the two companies set up the valving for your application. Ask the Saab peoples for comments on your particular setup, especially in combination with your springs.
I've got Konis on the M5. They work well in that application. They're adjustables, so the amount of rebound damping is left as an exercise to the user.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: From my experience of various cars and various shocks, but never a SAAB, I will never put Koni on a street driven car unless it's the only choice, where Bilstein will always be my first choise. Why? Because ever Koni shock I've driven seems to have way too much rebound damping making the ride incredibly harsh. If you 16 years old and harsh = sporty then Koni is for you. If on the other hand you have any interest in even the most rudimentary level of ride comfort then walk, na run away. This opionion is biased by the crappy Michigan roads, if you live where they have smooth roads the result might be different.
Not doubting that's your experience, but I've had Koni's on many street cars, including an Acura Legend, and on the soft setting it road at least as smooth as stock, if not better.
My experience is with a 911 application. Out of the box, there are two distinct differences. Bilsteins have higher compression damping but softer rebound damping. Koni's have softer compression and adjustable rebound damping (most of the reds do). Koni yellows have close to Bilstein but only slighly softer. I think the overall damping is about the same but the gas charge is not as agressive so they feel softer on initial compression. Again Koni yellow is adjustable rebound.
for stock suspension I like the Bilsteins on the street. With more aggressive springs the initial softer damping of the koni plus the ability to dial in more rebound is worth it.
remember, for the street if you want a reasonable ride you can soften the compression damping to take the edge off. This allows the spring to actually move and compress. The key is to let it move as far as possible without bottoming. Most of the control is the rebound damping. Damping should be as fast as possible with no oscillations.
Yes, Koni's have to setup properly. It takes some time. But when the car is comfortable to drive and will take a set if every corner the effort is Oh, So, worth it.
My $0.02.
with lowering springs use billie sports. hds will blow out on lowering springs. valving is the same or near enough you wont be able to tell. i dont know a thing about reds i know yellows are good with lowering springs
YMMV but the wifes S10 has billies on it, and without a couple hundred pounds in the bed, it rides like utter E36 M3. It's pretty sad when my dads blazer with 260k on the original shocks rides better than her truck. Just sayin!
Looking forward to trying out konis on my next ride.
I've never had Konis, but I've had Bilstein Sports in my lowered, stiffened, poly-bushed 2002 for years with no complaints. I just put a set of HDs in my factory sport suspension E39, and they are nice. Firm but not too harsh except over the worst of our northeast roads. I'm pleased, but then the stock Sachs units were absolutely dead after 148k miles.
The general consensus on the web seems to be that, for classic 900s, the Koni reds are more comfortable than the Bilstein HDs, which sometimes elicit complaints about harshness (too much compression).
I have a set of Bilsteins on one car, but the spring rates are double stock (at least), so it's tough to judge. My buddy's '85T TSD rally car also has Bilsteins -- it's not a bad ride, but we run fairly tall tires on it, and the car is usually pretty loaded. I don't know how that would change with several hundred pounds less weight and hi-perf. tires.
My daily has KYB gas-adjusts (white); they are very harsh; I bought a set of Konis to replace them. One day I might even get around to installing them...
Koni doesn't make yellows for 79-93 900s.
The black Bilstein Touring is an OE-equivalent, not a performance shock.
I have not heard of lowering springs blowing out HDs on a Saab 900.
The Konis are adjustable, but according to this guy, aren't matched very well... so you would need a shock dyno to consistently set them. Also, the adjusters are useless at their extreme settings.
Koni North America will revalve them for whatever spring rates you are running. Still need someone (Koni or a third party) to dyno them so you can match the rebound rates on the adjusters.
Bilsteins should be good and consistent. I don't know if you can have Bilstein revalve them, but I've also read that you can convert some of the street shocks to take-aparts, and then use whatever shim stacks you want from the Bilstein motorsports catalog.
In my unexperienced (but somewhat educated) opinion, Bilsteins are the way to go...
I don't think shocks really "blow out" when you hit them with too stiff a spring. It's just that an underdamped shock feels just like one that's blown - because a blown shock won't have much damping. Has anyone ever actually caused a shock to leak due to a spring mismatch?
they are both good.
i also had issues with the rear bilsteins blowing every winter when i lived in ny. happened on my old a1 vw, e36 bmw and rx7. most of time with eibach or h&R springs. i think they were the bilstein sports which are valved for lowering springs. been using konis ever since. at least until i bough the miata which has bilsteins on the Spec Miata suspension kit.
the bilstein HD are pretty nicely valved from a comfort perspective while also being sporty for the street. i find the bilstein HD a little more comfy than the Konis. YMMV
In reply to Keith Tanner:
I can't imagine why a stiff spring would cause a failure in the shock either.
Keith Tanner wrote: I don't think shocks really "blow out" when you hit them with too stiff a spring. It's just that an underdamped shock feels just like one that's blown - because a blown shock won't have much damping. Has anyone ever actually caused a shock to leak due to a spring mismatch?
It's not the stiffness that's the problem. Since the lowering springs bring the suspension closer to full compression, some people cut back the bump stops and end up reaching the compression limit of the shock/strut instead... they don't last long (sometimes not even a single bottoming-out) when that happens.
In other words, if a shock is designed so that it will self-destruct when installed incorrectly, it may self-destruct when installed incorrectly. Spring rate is not a factor.
For those who had problems with rear Bilsteins blowing out, did you use the stock bump stops? I was advised that the fronts have internal bump stops, but the rears require use of the stock external pieces (at least on my E39 BMW).
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