Chatting with a neighbor his boys last year bought a used Race car ( Mustang 302 V8 )
Supposedly ready to race. But they have yet to finish their first Drivers school.
They are looking at The BMW Z4 first and a Miata. Second. Reliability wise which will be a better choice for Drivers school? I don't think they know how to fix anything.
Miata
Miata seconded
Used Spec Miata. Sell it for what they paid when they're done.
A German Sports Car versus an asian appliance with reliability as the only criteria?
In reply to Olemiss540 :
Their preference seems to be the BMW. I suspect it's about ego rather than learning.
So they're buying a racecar just to do the driving school? What's stopping them from using the Mustang exactly?
Based on the crapcan endurance racing BMW are fast, stout, and reliable on track. If they are taller BMW would probably best. Obliviously Miata can be cheaper and just as much fun. However do you want to wad (knock on wood) a new car on track?
Is this a race car driver's school, or just a track day thing?
If they're doing a race licensing school, don't buy the car, rent it. Race cars take sorting and licensing schools have zero free time. The last thing you want is to have to choose between missing classroom time because you're fixing the car or missing practice races because it's broken. Arrive-and-drive race car rental orgs will trailer the car there for you, provide tires and support, and make sure the car is ready for every session when it starts, which is well worth the money (couple of thousand bucks for a Spec Miata, probably?). If they can't afford that... well, then they probably can't afford to do anything with the rookie license the school will give them.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Is this a race car driver's school, or just a track day thing?
If they're doing a race licensing school, don't buy the car, rent it. Race cars take sorting and licensing schools have zero free time. The last thing you want is to have to choose between missing classroom time because you're fixing the car or missing practice races because it's broken. Arrive-and-drive race car rental orgs will trailer the car there for you, provide tires and support, and make sure the car is ready for every session when it starts, which is well worth the money (couple of thousand bucks for a Spec Miata, probably?). If they can't afford that... well, then they probably can't afford to do anything with the rookie license the school will give them.
Yep. This kind of sounds like people that ask questions like, "What would it take to put a Bentley engine in a '74 Fiat?"
No one has done that, and if you had the skill or money, you'd just do it...........not be asking questions on the internet.
red_stapler said:So they're buying a racecar just to do the driving school? What's stopping them from using the Mustang exactly?
They tried all last year to finish a drivers school. It kept on breaking down on them. I think they've sold it. But they were asking me about current stuff. I know nothing about.
trigun7469 said:Based on the crapcan endurance racing BMW are fast, stout, and reliable on track. If they are taller BMW would probably best. Obliviously Miata can be cheaper and just as much fun. However do you want to wad (knock on wood) a new car on track?
I don't know what SCCA class they will be in with either car. A newish Miata or the BMW Z4
They tried an older Mustang ( 2000?) but it never finished a school. They are twins and I guess it's Grandma's money.
They think a BMW is going to be more reliable. But I have no clue.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Is this a race car driver's school, or just a track day thing?
If they're doing a race licensing school, don't buy the car, rent it. Race cars take sorting and licensing schools have zero free time. The last thing you want is to have to choose between missing classroom time because you're fixing the car or missing practice races because it's broken. Arrive-and-drive race car rental orgs will trailer the car there for you, provide tires and support, and make sure the car is ready for every session when it starts, which is well worth the money (couple of thousand bucks for a Spec Miata, probably?). If they can't afford that... well, then they probably can't afford to do anything with the rookie license the school will give them.
They are trying to get a SCCA license. Their dad pretty much insists they race what they got their license in.
I discouraged them from joining me in the XJS because they seemed too immature and knew absolutely nothing about working on cars. ( and I got the impression they thought that was beneath them).
Keith Tanner said:Used Spec Miata. Sell it for what they paid when they're done.
Too old!!! The Mustang burned them on "older cars".
In reply to frenchyd :
Maybe I'm asking the question wrong?
Is a newish Miata reliable enough to finish 4 drivers schools and 2 regional races without breaking down? I'm assuming they can take it to the dealer after each race.
Would a BMW Z4 be more reliable?
frenchyd said:codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Is this a race car driver's school, or just a track day thing?
If they're doing a race licensing school, don't buy the car, rent it. Race cars take sorting and licensing schools have zero free time. The last thing you want is to have to choose between missing classroom time because you're fixing the car or missing practice races because it's broken. Arrive-and-drive race car rental orgs will trailer the car there for you, provide tires and support, and make sure the car is ready for every session when it starts, which is well worth the money (couple of thousand bucks for a Spec Miata, probably?). If they can't afford that... well, then they probably can't afford to do anything with the rookie license the school will give them.
They are trying to get a SCCA license. Their dad pretty much insists they race what they got their license in.
They should just buy a Spec Miata, as has been mentioned.
Novices buying an expensive car, spending 5 figures to make it a race car. I have to imagine at this point with material costs, a properly built cage is approaching/exceeding $4k.....plus all the other needed equipment. Seems like a poor use of resources.
I suspect that's why we have the saying, "A fool and his are soon parted."
They don't need a car. They need a reality check and understanding of how professional motorsports works.
The only good news is in 18-24 months there should be a freshly prepped MX5 or Z4 for sale in Frenchy's 'hood.
In reply to DocRob :
My natural fall back is vintage racing. But that's not what dad or the boys want to do.
You guys keep saying spec Miata. Which is your natural fallback .
Again that's not what dad and the boys want to do.
How reliable is a newish Miata? Compared to a BMW Z4? For racing?
Really, since I don't know and none of you seem to know. I'm just going to pass.
z31maniac said:frenchyd said:codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Is this a race car driver's school, or just a track day thing?
If they're doing a race licensing school, don't buy the car, rent it. Race cars take sorting and licensing schools have zero free time. The last thing you want is to have to choose between missing classroom time because you're fixing the car or missing practice races because it's broken. Arrive-and-drive race car rental orgs will trailer the car there for you, provide tires and support, and make sure the car is ready for every session when it starts, which is well worth the money (couple of thousand bucks for a Spec Miata, probably?). If they can't afford that... well, then they probably can't afford to do anything with the rookie license the school will give them.
They are trying to get a SCCA license. Their dad pretty much insists they race what they got their license in.
They should just buy a Spec Miata, as has been mentioned.
Novices buying an expensive car, spending 5 figures to make it a race car. I have to imagine at this point with material costs, a properly built cage is approaching/exceeding $4k.....plus all the other needed equipment. Seems like a poor use of resources.I suspect that's why we have the saying, "A fool and his are soon parted."
People want to race certain cars.
Corvettes have their fans, Mustangs, Miata's. BMW, Etc.
I'm not going to insist they race Jaguars simply because That's what I like.
frenchyd said:Is a newish Miata reliable enough to finish 4 drivers schools and 2 regional races without breaking down? I'm assuming they can take it to the dealer after each race.
Would a BMW Z4 be more reliable?
You cannot assume that a random Miata you buy off CL will be that reliable -- Spec Miata is NAs and NBs, the newest one is 18 years old at this point. Most dealers are unlikely to want to work on a car with a cage, especially since it involves removing the catalytic converter and making the car illegal to drive on the street.
The licensing school is not about how to drive a particular car on track. It is about club racing rules and how to be safe out on track. Being close to other cars, passing, flags, starts, all that stuff. There's no reason it has to be the same car you race afterwards.
Rent a race car for the school and then (assuming he decides he wants to keep going) find one on CL and build it. Or buy an already-built one off https://www.racingjunk.com. Personally I'm not a fan of buying used race cars -- people rarely sell cars that are fully sorted and ready to go and there's a reason why they sell for a steep discount off the cost of building one.
As far as the original question goes, assuming he fits he should definitely buy the Miata. I kinda doubt SCCA has a class where a Z3 can be competitive and even if by some miracle it's an undiscovered gem for some class there's no way in hell it will have anything approaching the number of entrants that Spec Miata does. The advantage of racing SM is that no matter where you go in the country you will have a huge field with enough breadth of talent that there's someone for you to race and have fun with.
frenchyd said:z31maniac said:frenchyd said:codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Is this a race car driver's school, or just a track day thing?
If they're doing a race licensing school, don't buy the car, rent it. Race cars take sorting and licensing schools have zero free time. The last thing you want is to have to choose between missing classroom time because you're fixing the car or missing practice races because it's broken. Arrive-and-drive race car rental orgs will trailer the car there for you, provide tires and support, and make sure the car is ready for every session when it starts, which is well worth the money (couple of thousand bucks for a Spec Miata, probably?). If they can't afford that... well, then they probably can't afford to do anything with the rookie license the school will give them.
They are trying to get a SCCA license. Their dad pretty much insists they race what they got their license in.
They should just buy a Spec Miata, as has been mentioned.
Novices buying an expensive car, spending 5 figures to make it a race car. I have to imagine at this point with material costs, a properly built cage is approaching/exceeding $4k.....plus all the other needed equipment. Seems like a poor use of resources.I suspect that's why we have the saying, "A fool and his are soon parted."
People want to race certain cars.
Corvettes have their fans, Mustangs, Miata's. BMW, Etc.
I'm not going to insist they race Jaguars simply because That's what I like.
I get "wanting to race what they want to race" but we are speaking from practical experience.
I say, relate the real world experience of running costs and reliability. If they choose to ignore it and piss away tens of thousands of dollars, then it's on them. You gave them the good advice from not just you, but from a bunch of other people with track experience.
Even just modern HPDE is pricey, not just in money, but in the time component as well. It's why I don't do it anymore.
z31maniac said:I get "wanting to race what they want to race" but we are speaking from practical experience.
In club racing, it's actually more about wanting to race what all of your buddies want to race, because if you pick a car that nobody else races then you wind up all by yourself on the track without anyone to actually, you know, *race*. :)
I've been racing since 1962. SCCA since 1969, vintage since 1975i So I know how to race.
I shouldn't presume to tell others what they should do or how to do it.
I've learned I cannot make people do what they don't want to.
If you want a Miata you won't take a Jaguar
I'd suggest you direct them to NASA's webpage on Road Racing. https://drivenasa.com/road-racing/
They can look at the costs of what it actually takes to go racing. And maybe do some soul searching.
Given a desire to have something "new" but still somewhat affordable, a used MX5 Cup Car would be my choice. That's an NC or ND Miata. And it'll be more reliable and cost half what a Z4 will. And still be 2x the cost of a Spec Miata and 50% more every race weekend.
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