Given you can purchase a Boxster for Miata money I thought this be fair.
Here are the rules. when comparing them, the book value has to be within $1k of each other (that should take out retail fluctuations based on location, mileage and options)
So no "A 2005 Boxster S vs a 2005 Miata" I would be more like "a 2005 Boxster vs a 2009 Miata"
Purpose is a weekend toy, autoX and HPDE. Occasional traffic duty. DD is NOT required.
GO!
The only thing I know about Porsche is that they always need a new engine because some esoteric $2 part failed. One of the few cars where this item is a consumable. They have become like Jaguar where the idea of buying one out of warranty is a non-starter.
In order to play this game, I would have to factor in the cost of a new engine into any used Porsche purchase. Miata engines on the other hand you cant even give away, they are like the cockroach of the internal combustion world.
I will go for the Miata every time.
I own a Miata and a Cayman S. My Cayman has needed approximately zero replacement engines. My only expenses have been oil changes and tires. Tires are much more expensive, obviously, but even a DIY oil change is probably going to be $100 or more, as they hold a lot of oil and they are supposed to get synthetic. Plus, decent filters cost a little more.
PCA is exponentially better than any Miata club.
Just for the Club part, PCA all the way. I really enjoy when I work events with that group and try to work as many as I can just because they are great people to be around. I was surprised how great of a group it was. Honestly, It's one of the few car clubs I'd actually join once I get my Porsche.
For the money matters part. Miata. You can get a 09 soft top in the 13-14K range. You can add the Targa kit from FM for $7500. That makes it a very interesting package for still less than a Porsche.
To get to later model Miata money, you are into the 2.7L early 2000s models. It seems the NC pricing is really starting to nosedive locally.
Which is more important? Straight line or ability to turn? In my experience the Porsche will go faster in a straight line but the Miata handles better.
I'll take the Boxster because it is a much better car in every single way by no small margin excepting for a penchant for catastrophic engine failure. Like the super hot girl with the crazy eyes you know you could get but might deeply regret later. It sounds better, goes better, stops better and turns better. It looks better. It "feels" better than almost any car you can buy at any price. The Miata will be cheaper in both short and long runs and still a lot of fun if you don't compare them directly. So, don't. The comparison for the Boxster is the Z3/Z4.
You can't dismiss the the "issue" because it can really hurt you to the tune of nearly the cost of the car - but it's easy to overlook it if you bring your wallet to a test drive. If it has an "S" on the bumper... easier still to get into deep trouble ;)
I haven't driven a Boxster, so I can't give a good opinion on this head to head matchup. I do know that the mag talked about how the early Boxster had some serious reliability problems. 
The IMS bearing failures are the Achilles' heel on the earlier cars. Some issues like the air/oil separator are a much simpler repair than it would seem, but the IMS issues and the porous blocks are the two big things on early Boxsters. That said, I have found cars around $8k with documented IMS upgrade/replacements and the like, so they are becoming a better and better value it seems.
P car vs miata? P car. I need a manlihood extension. 
G. P. Snorklewacker wrote: I'll take the Boxster because it is a much better car in every single way by no small margin excepting for a penchant for catastrophic engine failure. Like the super hot girl with the crazy eyes you know you could get but might deeply regret later. It sounds better, goes better, stops better and turns better. It looks better. It "feels" better than almost any car you can buy at any price. The Miata will be cheaper in both short and long runs and still a lot of fun if you don't compare them directly. So, don't. The comparison for the Boxster is the Z3/Z4. You can't dismiss the the "issue" because it can really hurt you to the tune of nearly the cost of the car - but it's easy to overlook it if you bring your wallet to a test drive. If it has an "S" on the bumper... easier still to get into deep trouble ;)
I copied this from the Flat 6 Innovations website because it pretty much sums up why I will never buy a Porsche:
Be proactive... If you find yourself in a reactive mode the job will cost more, will take longer and the repair could be equal to, or greater than the value of your vehicle.
Lets make something clear... The M96 engine has its share of issues and some can't be remedied without a complete tear down of the engine. These "engine re-constructions" are what our company specializes in; but frankly we are so busy that we can't help every owner of a failed engine. This is why it is very important that you understand the weaknesses of the engine and do whats possible to keep the engine alive as long as possible.
It is really simple, replace and upgrade what you can and the chances of misfortune are greatly reduced.It is true that every M96 engine begins to fail from the day it is first started, but that holds true for every engine in every car in the world. What makes the M96 different is the fact that many of the problematic issues can be avoided by being proactive with maintenance and applying some proven components specifically designed to counter the chances of failure. Doing this allows you to drive your Porsche with a great deal more confidence. This also helps to protect the investment that you have in your Porsche, and doing these things will significantly increase the value and "sell-ability" of your car.
In summary: if you study pharmaceuticals and stay on top of her meds, that crazy hot chick could work out for you.
Porsche may or may not have engine reliability problems, but it seems that they DO have a perception of reliability problem.
The other thing to consider is that the maintenance schedule on the Porsche is going to cost about the same as payments on a used Miata.
That all said, if I were not paying the bills for any consequences it would be the Porsche every time cause of the chassis.
What we really need, is more motorswap DIYs for p-car chassis. The engines are the weakest link. Let's put somebody else's reliable design in there, and look forward to a bright future.
Considering how much more expensive the Porsche will be to own, operate, maintain, and repair, any attempt to equalize the purchase price is quickly rendered irrelevant. If money truly is a factor, I suppose it could be Miata vs $5k cheaper boxster...But in all likelihood, that probably just leads to an even more expensive Boxster in the long run.
Much like 'if you can't afford to roll it off a cliff, you can't afford to track/race it', if you can't afford to grenade the engine, you can't afford to drive it outside of warranty.
Not reading....What is "Miata money?"
Jamey_from_Legal wrote: What we really need, is more motorswap DIYs for p-car chassis. The engines are the weakest link. Let's put somebody else's reliable design in there, and look forward to a bright future.
I see Renegade Hybrids already has an LSx swap kit for the Boxster S out. 
Not sure whether we'd need more options unless you just plain want something weird or have a pathological hatred of Chevies.
There is nothing I like about the early boxsters, so for me, Miata without question. Now if somehow a new Boxster could be had for Miata money, I'd at least test drive the boxster.
Jamey_from_Legal wrote: What we really need, is more motorswap DIYs for p-car chassis. The engines are the weakest link. Let's put somebody else's reliable design in there, and look forward to a bright future.
I'll just leave this here:
http://www.renegadehybrids.com/
tomtomgt356 wrote:Jamey_from_Legal wrote: What we really need, is more motorswap DIYs for p-car chassis. The engines are the weakest link. Let's put somebody else's reliable design in there, and look forward to a bright future.I'll just leave this here: http://www.renegadehybrids.com/
Oh, you people are evil. Just what I need, one more reason to drive around hoping some moron totals my Camaro so I can turn it into a swap donor...
Two VERY different tools, originally designed to do the same job for VERY different new-car demographics.
Rolex vs. Timex: The Timex is more reliable, the Rolex doesn't have to be.
The Boxster S is a better car in every measurable way. The ownership experience is going to be different. If you aren't willing to assume the somewhat-overstated risk of engine failure and generally higher maintenance costs, the Miata is a benign and valid alternative...and excellent car for a reasonable sum.
(But the Boxster is a better sports car)
NOHOME wrote: In summary: if you study pharmaceuticals and stay on top of her meds, that crazy hot chick could work out for you.
^^ This is an awesome analogy. It's like replacing social repercussions with financial ones...
So. Wait.. ~10k plus a boxster gets you a LSV8 boxster.. I know my next project.
Don't think for a second that Porsche is unique in this "cost to own second hand" predicament.
I am trying to recall who wrote the article on operating a high-end used Mercedes for a year and came to the conclusion that it was cheaper to lease a new model than try to keep an out of warranty car on the road. Not to mention the many days in the shop and the towing hassle.
A used Jag has the same appeal and value as a hand grenade where the safety pin has been misplaced.
Woody wrote: PCA is exponentially better than any Miata club.
I thought we were the Miata club? 
NOHOME wrote: Don't think for a second that Porsche is unique in this "cost to own second hand" predicament. I am trying to recall who wrote the article on operating a high-end used Mercedes for a year and came to the conclusion that it was cheaper to lease a new model than try to keep an out of warranty car on the road. Not to mention the many days in the shop and the towing hassle. A used Jag has the same appeal and value as a hand grenade where the safety pin has been misplaced.
It was a Top Gear episode. Jeremy could have purchased a New car for the cost of one repair.
bmw88rider wrote: For the money matters part. Miata. You can get a 09 soft top in the 13-14K range. You can add the Targa kit from FM for $7500. That makes it a very interesting package for still less than a Porsche. To get to later model Miata money, you are into the 2.7L early 2000s models. It seems the NC pricing is really starting to nosedive locally.
I looked it up this morning. A 2009 Miata is booking (which was the condition, not selling privately) for around the same money as a 4 year older Boxster Non-S.
NOHOME wrote: I am trying to recall who wrote the article on operating a high-end used Mercedes for a year and came to the conclusion that it was cheaper to lease a new model than try to keep an out of warranty car on the road. Not to mention the many days in the shop and the towing hassle.
Wasn't this Edmunds with a long-term CL600? EDIT: It was a CL65: http://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/cl-class/2005/long-term-road-test/introduction.html
NOHOME wrote:G. P. Snorklewacker wrote: I'll take the Boxster because it is a much better car in every single way by no small margin excepting for a penchant for catastrophic engine failure. Like the super hot girl with the crazy eyes you know you could get but might deeply regret later. It sounds better, goes better, stops better and turns better. It looks better. It "feels" better than almost any car you can buy at any price. The Miata will be cheaper in both short and long runs and still a lot of fun if you don't compare them directly. So, don't. The comparison for the Boxster is the Z3/Z4. You can't dismiss the the "issue" because it can really hurt you to the tune of nearly the cost of the car - but it's easy to overlook it if you bring your wallet to a test drive. If it has an "S" on the bumper... easier still to get into deep trouble ;)I copied this from the Flat 6 Innovations website because it pretty much sums up why I will never buy a Porsche: Be proactive... If you find yourself in a reactive mode the job will cost more, will take longer and the repair could be equal to, or greater than the value of your vehicle. Lets make something clear... The M96 engine has its share of issues and some can't be remedied without a complete tear down of the engine. These "engine re-constructions" are what our company specializes in; but frankly we are so busy that we can't help every owner of a failed engine. This is why it is very important that you understand the weaknesses of the engine and do whats possible to keep the engine alive as long as possible. It is really simple, replace and upgrade what you can and the chances of misfortune are greatly reduced.It is true that every M96 engine begins to fail from the day it is first started, but that holds true for every engine in every car in the world. What makes the M96 different is the fact that many of the problematic issues can be avoided by being proactive with maintenance and applying some proven components specifically designed to counter the chances of failure. Doing this allows you to drive your Porsche with a great deal more confidence. This also helps to protect the investment that you have in your Porsche, and doing these things will significantly increase the value and "sell-ability" of your car. In summary: if you study pharmaceuticals and stay on top of her meds, that crazy hot chick could work out for you. Porsche may or may not have engine reliability problems, but it seems that they DO have a perception of reliability problem. The other thing to consider is that the maintenance schedule on the Porsche is going to cost about the same as payments on a used Miata. That all said, if I were not paying the bills for any consequences it would be the Porsche every time cause of the chassis.
There is something about dating an Amy right up and until she walks into a room with a knife after you are too exhausted to defend yourself.
Regret is not one of those things.
renegade hybrids kits leave a bit to be desired in terms of fitment and customer service. Kennedy Engineering on the other hand...
http://www.kennedyenginc.com/Pages/default.aspx
they'll get you the bits to get your stalled renegade project complete and on the road
You'll need to log in to post.
