Brake Pads - Mustang GT Calipers on our LTD - For LeMons Racing. Suggestions?

Our 1975 Ford LTD Landau got a brake upgrade early in it's LeMons career with the Tunachuckers, going from the stock cast iron single piston front calipers to some fancy, cheaty, 2 piston aluminum calipers from a 2009 Mustang GT.  It works great with the stock LTD rotors and apart from the phenolic caliper pistons degrading over time (so we keep a spare set of calipers handy) there's no real problems.

We've found that the Hawk HT-10 pads work pretty well for our style of driving- not super aggressive bite, but they'll haul the 2 ton sedan down in short order.  Wear has been pretty good.  The issue is price.  The pads are running about $200 for a set, now, and we use about a set per race, and always keep a spare set on hand.  

I've seen that Power Stop has these new "Track Day" pads out, they're about $80 a set for these calipers.  The name is promising.  Anyone have any experience with these?  Or, for that matter, any other track experience with any other pads on a heavy vehicle for endurance racing?  I'm looking at EBC Yellowstuff 4000s and they seem to run about $130 for a set.  

We tried the Hawk DC-60's or whatever they're called and found the initial bite too grabby for our tastes.  Tended to lock the wheels (and they're also $200/ set).  

I hate to mess with what works, but $200 for a set of pads every race is getting spendy.  

Performance Friction was the pad supplier for the "track package" S197, so maybe those pads would be an option?

In reply to AngryCorvair :

Their website is annoying and not easy to use...it lists a 1081.10 pad for this application but doesn't tell me anything about it.  

EBC Yellowstuff has been plenty enough for me, and should even be fine with a more heavy and powerful car like the LTD. They're definitely grabby but not terribly hard to control IMO. They seem to get easier to control as they warm up. Of course you should be running brake vents to improve pad longevity and keep the costs down.

Performance Friction pads did not last more than 8 hours on our 3000lb SHO. So I’m guessing they won’t be good for your LTD. I would bite the bullet and go with what you know works. 

I think stepping up to a better pad will actually save you money.

Either ST-43 or Carbotech XP24 should work well on that beast and last more than 1 race.  They are closer to $250 / a set.  However, they should probably last you 2 races.  You can also ask them to make them thicker (if you have the initial room) for not much difference in cost.

We run both on our 87 RX7.  They are the only pads we could get to work with our current setup.  They both work well, however the XP24 feel way better and actually brought our brake system pressures down by 100+ psi for the same level of stopping.  Strangely they feel WAY easier to modulate than any other pad we have run.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

We have run vents, but inevitably they get torn off/ fall down/ get knocked off by the tow truck.  I was watching Indy cars the other wekend and saw they pretty much just use big rectangular vents at the wheels, no ducting or anything.  Granted they're open wheel, but the front of the brakes on our LTD has pretty good "visibility" to the front of the car so that may be the simpler solution.  

We also run Wilwood 600 F brake fluid and stainless flex lines.  

The back brakes we converted to discs last race, and run Raybestos PG (Pretty Good?) ceramics on the single piston calipers back there.  They worked great, lasted the whole weekend, and I do believe cut down on the wear on the front pads.  So, perhaps with the better rear brakes, we can afford to go a little cheaper in the front pad department.  

We did run Hawk HP or HPS (can't recall) in front for the very first race, and they lasted for one day, had to change them for the 2nd day. They didn't have the power the HT-10's do, either.  But again, that was with rear drums and cheapy organic shoes.  

Biggest concern, other than cost, is keeping the heat down and conserving the rotors (as they're OEM type, so only about 11" diameter). 

Finally, we've been embarking upon a bit of a weight-reduction strategy which, if it is successful, should shave 200 or 300 pounds off the total mass of the car.  Less mass = less work for the big 7.5 liter engine to do to haul it up to speed, and less work for the retarders to haul it down from speed.  

The nice thing about Hawk is that they publish their temperature ratings. I'd call around and ask the other manufacturers what can live within those same ranges.

porterfieldbrakes has most of the data in 1 website to compare different brake compounds.  You just need to search around and find the different info on their website.  It is unfortunately not all on 1 graph or anything like that.

Also, how are you breaking in your pads.  ALL pads require a pretty good break in period.  Hawks seem to need it more than the others!

They really should be run in real good and hot over a period of 5 to 10 laps and then allowed to cool for MANY hours (like overnight if possible).  It seems to help with pedal feel and definetly increases the life of the pads by a factor of 3 or 4.

P.S. I have raced in over 60 cheap car type races.  I have used Carbotech, Hawk, and Porterfield pads ranging from Hawk HP+ through DT60s.   The various pads we tried went on 6 different cars.  Most of the cars had multiple brands and types of pads tried at different times.  We test various brake pads to see what each vehicle "likes".

I would find a way to get cooling to the center of your rotors ASAP.  This alone MAY extend your pad life by 2x.

Also, they do make temperature paint and temp strips that you can attach to your rotors and calipers to find out how hot the pads are actually getting.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse :

yes, it is.   1081 is the FMSI number for that pad shape, and "10" is their internal code for the friction compound.   Probably cheaper to buy them from Ford than from PF.

We have a ~half worn set of HT-10's on there now.  I may equivocate and buy something like the Yellowstuffs for a spare set.  We ended up with a half worn set as we were sidelined by some mechanical issues last race.

Our bedding procedure is something like 7 stops from ~40 mph to almost zero, but never fully stopping, and then idling around for a few minutes to let the pads cool before stopping the car.  

We had run HT-10's on our first leMons car (a 1966 Volvo Amazon that we'd also converted to use the Mustang GT calipers, though on Nissan 240 rotors), hence our familiarity with those pads.  But back then they were like under $150 for a set.  

I don't think brake pads are the 1% we're missing for a Class C victory.  No one on our team drives at nine-and-a-half tenths.  

Nor should they.  

Will be working on better venting.  

These pads (EBC Orangestuff) look like a solid choice.  Also, i found this graph of Hawk pads:

HP Plus degrade over 900F, and they were degrading on us, so we can assume our brake temps are at least 900F.  The HT-10 were fine, and they're good up to 1350F or so.  It looks like the Orangestuffs have a similar temperature range (750C).  And they're $130 for a set.  I think we'll try them.  

volvoclearinghouse said:

These pads (EBC Orangestuff) look like a solid choice.  Also, i found this graph of Hawk pads:

 

HP Plus degrade over 900F, and they were degrading on us, so we can assume our brake temps are at least 900F.  The HT-10 were fine, and they're good up to 1350F or so.  It looks like the Orangestuffs have a similar temperature range (750C).  And they're $130 for a set.  I think we'll try them.  

Hawk actually doesn't advertise that chart you have there any more for a couple reasons. Not the least of which is that it lists street pads making friction above 0.6  at 1000 F which is frankly laughable. that chart makes for a good comparison between their pad offerings but I would strongly advise not using that as an actual comparison with other pads.

I agree with the comments above, better pads will probably give you better response and last longer.  If a $300 set of pads lasts twice as long then you've basically saved $100 in the process.

I have to agree with wvumtnbkr, Tim at Porterfield is a wealth of information on this stuff and their website is a great place to look.

In reply to SpartaEvolution :

The Porterfield website is pretty good, and has a few different brake pads for sale- Hawks, Raybestos, and Porterfield.