Can we just talk about the fact a 4cylinder Camaro won a national championship?

Those are crazy prices.  In my area I've never seen any advertised for an unexpected price (eg. MSRP minus manufacturer discount).  The used ones appear to be holding their value quite well.

Jaynen said:

the general fundamental issue with trucks is the weight distribution and the inability to really move more of it to the back right?

That's what massive Aero is for 

I've had two 2.0Ts -- a 2016 out the door for under $20K (no tax) and a 17 for $21.6.

And now I'm getting e-mail from the "Internet Sales Manager"'s manager wanting to know why I haven't stopped in to test drive a new four cylinder Camaro.

Hmm, well, approve the loan and give me a *really* good interest rate.  Not mentioned in my e-mail response:  I came down with a cold recently, and I literally busted my ass at work on Friday and I am only now getting to the point where I can walk and move without looking like something created in a laboratory, destined to be chased down by a mob carrying torches and pitchforks.  (In hindsight, so to speak, I probably should have gone to the hospital, but oh well)  Although that would probably get some even more colorful responses if I'd not omitted that.

This reminds me eerily of the time my stepdad (whose credit rating up to that point has been "only accept cash up front, examined thoroughly") drove out of a dealership with a 5.7l Tundra for $18k all-told.  This was when fuel was around $4.50/gallon for 87 and I think the Toyota unintended-acceleration story was unfolding (I remember when he got it, he didn't really want to drive it) and the dealership was just pleased to get the thing out of their inventory.

Back on actual topic.

The only 2.0t/manual combinations I have driven were in Regals.  The throttle response in them is apathetic both accelerating and decelerating, which made shifting obnoxiously difficult.  They were the poster children for hating drive by wire.  I understand that the new 2.0t is a completely different species than the old Ecotec-based engines.  How is it drivability-wise compared to the old one?

Mind you, i wouldn't MIND having an automatic, and in many ways I'd prefer it, but GM has the trans controller locked down so tight that it would be $400 just to license it to hack with HP Tuners.  And if I'm going to go against 25 years of swearing up and down to never own a GM product, I'm at least going to hack that thing as I see fit once the warranty is up...

Knurled said:

 The throttle response in them is apathetic both accelerating and decelerating, which made shifting obnoxiously difficult.  They were the poster children for hating drive by wire. 

Pedal Commander will fix that. 

Pedal Commander

Most of those pedal commanders just literally send a higher tps signal tho. So it becomes like a lightswitch

In reply to fasted58 :

That's lame.  Why should anyone do a piggyback hardware hack when the issue is in software?  That looks as dumb as those magic fuel pressure regulators you used to see in British car magazines.

Rule of thumb:  Any product that uses an image of a Charger doing a burnout is immediately suspect.  The only thing worse would be a light truck with exhaust pipes through the bed blowing clouds of black smoke.  It's a sign that what they are saying is snake squeezin's.

And notice how I said accelerating and decelerating.  On the Regals, the engine would continue to accelerate for a half-second or so after you let off the throttle.  How the heck do you shift smoothly when the PCM is actively fighting you?

In reply to Knurled :

yeah, yeah, that's it... it's all snake oil. 

2.0t with a tune

Would be nice if we knew somebody with a magazine that could do a story on one of these and verify stuff like this...

They have been tuning these engines since about 2008. GM released a GMPP tune for the LNF that took the engines from 260 bhp/260Tq to 290 bhp/340 Tq.  Other tuners were a bit more aggressive and managed to get 320 bhp or so.

The LTG in the Camaro differs very little from the earlier 2.0s

I also think HPtuners/EFIlive is really good about giving you control over trans shift points etc on GM cars

In reply to Jaynen :

I am familiar with HP Tuners.  Funny story.  The 10 speed trans's controller is locked down so hard that you have to send in your controller for them to make some hardware modifications before you can start tuning it ($200).  And then you have to separately license the trans controller for four credits ($200), no full-vehicle licensing like the old stuff. 

So for the ten speed auto you have to throw down $400 in modification and licensing fees before you can alter anything.

I had the impression that the 8 speed was similar, but can't find the info.

Does anything get the 10 speed besides the ZL1? Thats the codeveloped with ford hydromatic right?

A lot of Ford trucks get the 10 speed.  Not sure about GM.  I'm not expecting to have to tune them for another five-seven years.