Car Dealer Fraud

WE NEED SOME HELP! We were just ripped off by a race car dealership and we need some help dealing with it. We would like to hear from anyone who knows a story like this that was resolved successfully.
I am not suppossed to give all of the details now but, essentially the car was advertised as one thing which the dealer confirmed in person and what was delivered was a much older car in much worse condition and worth about half what we paid. The fraud is clear and obvious. Hoping to hear from you

Excellent first post, I especialy like the part where you introduce yourself.

How exactly are we suppose to help you?

Well it's an odd first post, but obviously a painful situation.

I have a personal dislike of lawyers as in the end disagreements between two parties usually end in the attorneys getting rich and the two sides, right or wrong ending up the poorer. Yes I'm bitter through personal experience in the six figures.

How much are we talking? $2k? Chalk it up to experience, $5k, small claims court?

To start I'd say you need copies of the original add, if it was an internet add I'd D/L and copy the page ASAP. Keep copies of any and all e-mails where condition was discussed. Get comps of other similar cars for sale. If it's a flat out lie, such as the year of manufacture it should be relatively clear cut. If it's subjective you're in for a hard time.

I understand you don't want to give all your details in a public forum, but throw us a bone here.

Note. This is most definitely not legal advice, it's purely the rambling of a bitter and twisted guy who's had some bad experiences and will avoid anything to do with attorneys at all costs (literal and figuratively). I don't play an attorney in real life, on the screen or even in armature dramatics.

Adrian had some good advice.

I've been lucky where I have worked with good lawyers when I lived in NY. A good one is a wonderful thing.

Agreement verbal or written ? Proof will be needed.

I haven't bought a car sight unseen and don't think I will. Unless you were provided pictures of a different car than you recieved or things were clearly untrue in the description of the car (not the condition, but if the ad said it was LS-1 powered and the actual car had a pinto engine) then I would guess it would be hard to prove there was fraud.

The condition of an object is a subjective thing. What one person sees as rust free (or runs good, or straight body, etc.) isn't the same as another person. Without knowing any of the details on your transaction my first thoughts are "buyer beware" and why did you buy a used and customized without looking at it first?

I'm curious about this race car dealership you speak of.

unevolved wrote: I'm curious about this race car dealership you speak of.

So are we all, but I think the OP would be nuts to name them prior to any results.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

unevolved wrote: I'm curious about this race car dealership you speak of.

So are we all, but I think the OP would be nuts to name them prior to any results.

Adrian's right on this. Even identifying the car could help reveal the dealer's name.

If the OP has accurately described the situation, I hope he works a equitable settlement with the dealer. He's already helped anyone who might consider buying a unseen car.

Bohdie wrote: WE NEED SOME HELP! We were just ripped off by a race car dealership"...

"Race car dealership?"

My scepticism was piqued.

David

Just to add a bit of levity to the thread:

In 1972, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. They promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no-one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team.

But seriously, If you are unable to deal with the shop, I'd go speak to an attorney. I'm pretty sure that caveat emptor is the standard on any used car purchase though unless the dealership offers some sort of warranty.

Hope that helps!

There's a difference between caveat emptor and false advertising, though. He says the car was "much older", which seems like a pretty black and white situation that's not subject to interpretation. If the car was described as a 1948 Motomobile and it turned out to be pre-war, well, that's fraudulent.

First, you're going to need some proof. Ads, photos, etc provided to you pre-sale. If you don't have proof, it's going to be your word against theirs and that's pretty tough to win.

Before you get the lawyers involved: if they're a member of the BBB, bring it to their attention. That can work remarkably well and won't cost you anything.

"armature dramatics" - like a Lucas starter giving up in a shower of sparks.

I am a dealer and I've been on both sides of these types of situations. Ebay is usually involved.

From the dealer's point of view, and not knowing the whole story, I can tell you that not many of us are willing to risk our careers by screwing someone out of a few thousand bucks.

Word travels quickly and we, as dealers, are in the unenviable position of always having to prove and re-prove how honest and legit we are to overcome people's preconceived (and sometimes warranted) beliefs that we're all deceitful scumbags. Nothing decimates our business faster than one pissed off customer going from forum to forum on a rant. While there are still some dealers that earn our trade its bad repuation, the majority of us have to work harder to overcome it.

All that being said, the condition of a vehicle, paricularly a modified race car, is very subjective and sometimes the buyer hears only what s/he wants to hear and not what the seller is actually saying. Does anyone here read the Sports Car Market?

Check out this aticle by John Draneas about a court case over a guy who got screwed on ebay:

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/Legal-Files/2009/November//

Keith wrote: Before you get the lawyers involved: if they're a member of the BBB, bring it to their attention. That can work remarkably well and won't cost you anything.

My experience with the BBB on both sides has been a joke. When I tried to use them to help collect on a bad check issued by "A premium BBB member" according to the logo on the check, I was told they wouldn't help me, but were very interested in selling me a membership in their organization.

When a customer of mine used them to try to mediate a problem we had, I was told that th BBB could make the complaint go away if I, you guessed it, paid to join the BBB. Just my experience, but if you want to get somewhere, don't expect someone else to do the heavy lifting.

M030 wrote: I am a dealer and I've been on both sides of these types of situations. Ebay is usually involved. [snip] Check out this aticle by John Draneas about a court case over a guy who got screwed on ebay: http://www.sportscarmarket.com/Legal-Files/2009/November//

Very good advice...

The trouble with ebay is that even if you go to great lengths to describe the car as well as you can (even though this is usually to your detriment), people pretty much won't believe you that this is all there is.

I've bought and sold a bunch of vehicles on ebay and now pretty much only bid on something that I looked at before.

Racer1ab wrote: Just to add a bit of levity to the thread: In 1972, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. They promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no-one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team. But seriously, If you are unable to deal with the shop, I'd go speak to an attorney. I'm pretty sure that caveat emptor is the standard on any used car purchase though unless the dealership offers some sort of warranty. Hope that helps!

Why does the A-team want to shoot out the lights? What did they do to them? Why can't Hollywood hire a gun person to teach actors not to violate the 3rd rule? Sorry for the threadjack.

Good luck with your situation.

For some reason. I have a feeling that Bohdie may be one of the spambots that have perpetrated the board.

mistanfo wrote: For some reason. I have a feeling that Bohdie may be one of the spambots that have perpetrated the board.

Either that or he got lost because he has yet to reappear.

Is Mr T wearing a "TR3" belt buckle??

I would have pegged him as a TR7 man myself.

If it weren't snowing so bad I'd go over to Gander Mountain and check out the canoes...

Rustfinger wrote: Is Mr T wearing a "TR3" belt buckle?? I would have pegged him as a TR7 man myself.

I was thinking the exact same thing!

mistanfo wrote: For some reason. I have a feeling that Bohdie may be one of the spambots that have perpetrated the board.

I was thinking that the racing dealer sold Racing Canoes

Jeff wrote:

Racer1ab wrote: Just to add a bit of levity to the thread: In 1972, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. They promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no-one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team. But seriously, If you are unable to deal with the shop, I'd go speak to an attorney. I'm pretty sure that caveat emptor is the standard on any used car purchase though unless the dealership offers some sort of warranty. Hope that helps!

Why does the A-team want to shoot out the lights? What did they do to them? Why can't Hollywood hire a gun person to teach actors not to violate the 3rd rule? Sorry for the threadjack. Good luck with your situation.

According to the NRA, thats the first rule. The third rule is some crap about keeping the gun unloaded until blah blah blahhhh.

Joey