Keith Tanner said:
Hitting it with a hammer is a legit problem solving technique for a carb.
It's the Formula Ford engine, right? Pegasus Racing is a known supplier for those puppies.
No-no-No. I will report you for Carb abuse!!!!! If extremely Angered you have to use the proper Italian hand gestures. Followed with Italian swearing. You may throw a hammer to the ground and pull your hair
Luckily Weber's come apart almost as easy as SU's but massively easier than a Holley, Rochester, or Quadrajet If there is any flaw it's with dirt and solidified gasoline.
Carbs are so simple. Really basic plumbing. Unlike the Voodoo of electrons. Yes a properly tuned up set of Weber's needs readjusting with every weather change. ( If you want maximum power ) Air density is the villain, it changes and you need to re-jet it to stay in tune. That mechanic staring off in the distance is trying to figure out if the clouds will get here before the race is over.
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Keith Tanner said:
About points: get a Pertronix if it has points. Just say no to points.
The tip of the slippery slope. With points you can crack them open and get a satisfying arc of electricity. Amaze millennials by figuring out what the problem is without resorting to a 3rd party plug in gizmo. Take pride in setting point gap with a feeler gauge. Ahhh the simple life.
APEowner said:
I'm less of a fan of Pertronix than Keith is. I've found their quality control to be abysmal in recent years. I've lost track of the number of cars I've fixed by changing the Pertronix pickup. On one occasion I pulled one in the pits, stuck in a used set of points that someone had kicking around in their toolbox . I've had bad ones straight out of the box and early failures. The OP isn't limited by sanctioning body rules and can run any distributor so I'd look into the 123 unit https://123ignitionusa.com/ford-kent/ I run one with the sanctioning bodies that allow them and points with those that don't.
I will admit I haven't purchased a Pertronix for a while, so I cannot comment on their current quality control. I know they've been bombproof on any vehicle I have installed them in.
In reply to frenchyd :
I mentioned dad in the first post. I remember being something like six or seven, and him showing me how to install and gap points. I don't remember which car this was for, but there's a good chance it was a Pinto wagon or a Mustang II. I remember being a very attentive back seat Crusin' Wagon spotter then. I could see the bubble window a mile away. I don't know if I've gotten worse, but I haven't spotted any in a while. I'm a gen-x'er though.
frenchyd said:
Keith Tanner said:
About points: get a Pertronix if it has points. Just say no to points.
The tip of the slippery slope. With points you can crack them open and get a satisfying arc of electricity. Amaze millennials by figuring out what the problem is without resorting to a 3rd party plug in gizmo. Take pride in setting point gap with a feeler gauge. Ahhh the simple life.
...or put in something that just works and doesn't need constant fettling. Driving is more fun than bragging that you had to repair your car using a matchbook, and not having to set point gap is simpler than having to set point gap. Running points is just hair shirt masochism which only impresses yourself.
Keith Tanner said:
APEowner said:
I'm less of a fan of Pertronix than Keith is. I've found their quality control to be abysmal in recent years. I've lost track of the number of cars I've fixed by changing the Pertronix pickup. On one occasion I pulled one in the pits, stuck in a used set of points that someone had kicking around in their toolbox . I've had bad ones straight out of the box and early failures. The OP isn't limited by sanctioning body rules and can run any distributor so I'd look into the 123 unit https://123ignitionusa.com/ford-kent/ I run one with the sanctioning bodies that allow them and points with those that don't.
I will admit I haven't purchased a Pertronix for a while, so I cannot comment on their current quality control. I know they've been bombproof on any vehicle I have installed them in.
That was my experience as well. I know of several older units that are still providing reliable service. That's a big part of what make the current quality control, or lack thereof so disappointing.
Keith Tanner said:
Hitting it with a hammer is a legit problem solving technique for a carb.
I fired up the big block in the Camaro one day after it had been sitting a while and it was running really rich. I popped the air cleaner off and could see fuel pumping out the overflow tube from the front fuel bowl. I picket up a nearby ratchet and tapped the seat adjuster on the carb with the but end of the handle and the idle smoothed right out (As much as the idle can smooth out on a 640hp naturally aspirated big block) as the fuel stopped pumping out the overflow. My dad, who had been watching my picked the ratchet up off the bench, examined it and said "Wow, Snap-on makes a tool for everything!"
Be aware of the need for some zinc in this crank case because of the flat tappets. Brad-Penn has enough and a few others do too, but anything works if you use an additive. Lower API spec Shell RotellaT has enough, I wish I could remember the numbers. 15/40 weight. Cutting the bonnet to clear big filters is a good idea unless your esthetics get offended by them.
Keith Tanner said:
frenchyd said:
Keith Tanner said:
About points: get a Pertronix if it has points. Just say no to points.
The tip of the slippery slope. With points you can crack them open and get a satisfying arc of electricity. Amaze millennials by figuring out what the problem is without resorting to a 3rd party plug in gizmo. Take pride in setting point gap with a feeler gauge. Ahhh the simple life.
...or put in something that just works and doesn't need constant fettling. Driving is more fun than bragging that you had to repair your car using a matchbook, and not having to set point gap is simpler than having to set point gap. Running points is just hair shirt masochism which only impresses yourself.
Not really. Once you've tried and failed to trouble shoot a lack of spark it's easy to fall back on the known and use a set of points. No a match book is not a good feeler gauge.
Now you may have a valid issue on a daily driver. Setting points every 3000 miles means it would need to be done more than once a week sometimes.
But it's rare for me to get 3000 miles in a year on cars in my collection. The pleasure I get doing that every spring is very rewarding. The whole process is filled with tactile memories and confidence.
While I'm a certified card carrying Luddite I recognize that pistons sliding up and down with every 4th stroke making power is being quickly overtaken by electric motors. I watched in awe as a new Tesla whipped past my bus on the freeway in such a brutal fashion. Pure lust!
TurnerX19 said:
Be aware of the need for some zinc in this crank case because of the flat tappets. Brad-Penn has enough and a few others do too, but anything works if you use an additive. Lower API spec Shell RotellaT has enough, I wish I could remember the numbers. 15/40 weight. Cutting the bonnet to clear big filters is a good idea unless your esthetics get offended by them.
I didn't know about the zinc thing. I just went down a bit of a rabbit hole on it. I'm seeing 15w-50 and 20w-50 mentioned a bunch, along with some references to Caterham recommending only synthetic blends and not full synthetic.
As far as cutting the bonnet, that's gonna be high on the pucker factor, so probably not right away.
APEowner said:
Keith Tanner said:
Hitting it with a hammer is a legit problem solving technique for a carb.
I fired up the big block in the Camaro one day after it had been sitting a while and it was running really rich. I popped the air cleaner off and could see fuel pumping out the overflow tube from the front fuel bowl. I picket up a nearby ratchet and tapped the seat adjuster on the carb with the but end of the handle and the idle smoothed right out (As much as the idle can smooth out on a 640hp naturally aspirated big block) as the fuel stopped pumping out the overflow. My dad, who had been watching my picked the ratchet up off the bench, examined it and said "Wow, Snap-on makes a tool for everything!"
Knowledge is power. If you know where and how hard to use that hammer, good for you. Most don't. I'm one of those. But I can take one apart find the dirt or whatever, clean it, reset the seat and add some Stabil to the gas tank so it doesn't happen again.
In reply to frenchyd :
I'm a millenial and not even mad. Never stop being you Frenchy.
03Panther said:
Keith Tanner said:
Hitting it with a hammer is a legit problem solving technique for a carb.
It's the Formula Ford engine, right? Pegasus Racing is a known supplier for those puppies.
The proper description is "gentle mechanical persuasion." The amount needed varies, and seems to be inversely proportionate with frustration level.
I prefer "percussive tune up" or "impact adjustment."
Mike (Forum Supporter) said:
TurnerX19 said:
Be aware of the need for some zinc in this crank case because of the flat tappets. Brad-Penn has enough and a few others do too, but anything works if you use an additive. Lower API spec Shell RotellaT has enough, I wish I could remember the numbers. 15/40 weight. Cutting the bonnet to clear big filters is a good idea unless your esthetics get offended by them.
I didn't know about the zinc thing. I just went down a bit of a rabbit hole on it. I'm seeing 15w-50 and 20w-50 mentioned a bunch, along with some references to Caterham recommending only synthetic blends and not full synthetic.
As far as cutting the bonnet, that's gonna be high on the pucker factor, so probably not right away.
It's not the zinc, it's the phosphorus. ZDDP has its protective properties because of the phosphorus in the compound (but really, it's the whole compound that is important)
This is critical to understand, so people don't file pennies into their valve covers so they can stick it to The Man, or something.
CrustyRedXpress (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to frenchyd :
I'm a millenial and not even mad. Never stop being you Frenchy.
Meh. I'm a millenial and I remember having to adjust my points every morning so the car would start and I could drive to work.
I'm a millennial and I've had plenty of cars with carbs and even a few with points. You know how often I had trouble with them? Twice. One set of points went bad, and I did have a Quadrajet develop a leak (throttle shaft wobble, fixed by machining out for bushings)
And when I was younger and less careful with my possessions, all of these vehicles were ridden hard, revved high, and driven in very dirty conditions.
It was more difficult and fiddly and annoying to have to set a tps on my s10 than it is to swap a set of points. And I've had more issues with MAF sensors getting dirty than I ever did with carbs. And a good set of feeler gauges and nice screwdrivers costs less than a mediocre OBD2 scanner.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
CrustyRedXpress (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to frenchyd :
I'm a millenial and not even mad. Never stop being you Frenchy.
Meh. I'm a millenial and I remember having to adjust my points every morning so the car would start and I could drive to work.
That tells me either the distributor shaft was bent /worn out. Or you failed to properly tighten the set of points.
frenchyd said:
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
CrustyRedXpress (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to frenchyd :
I'm a millenial and not even mad. Never stop being you Frenchy.
Meh. I'm a millenial and I remember having to adjust my points every morning so the car would start and I could drive to work.
That tells me either the distributor shaft was bent /worn out. Or you failed to properly tighten the set of points.
I had a Ford with the breaker plate that pivoted on a tiny plastic bushing ("so dwell can change with vacuum advance!") and they lasted about 3000 miles before the bushing got sloppy enough that the points would just go all cattywhompus all the time.
I have the car now. It arrived off the enclosed carrier not running, which wasn't the way I'd bought it. I'm wanting to deal with the seller before I try to do anything to it.
One problem seems to be the battery isn't quite so hot, so I have the car on a tender. On a jump starter it'll spin well, but never does anything better than a moment or two of really encouraging sputtering. It gets closer to starting when I let it rest between tries. If I crank too long, or don't pause between starting attempts, it doesn't try to catch anymore. My best guess is that it isn't getting fuel at a sufficient pressure or rate. When I pause between cranks fuel delivery gets ahead, but is too slow to actually run the car.
In reply to Mike (Forum Supporter) :
Hmm I suspect it's not that. Rather the nature of a race car. Webers have no choke. You have to keep pumping the gas to act as a choke. It's a kind of delicate dance between too much gas and flooding the plugs and too little and not getting enough fuel to start it.
If it's cold enough you have to cover the intake enough to act as a choke but open it up enough to allow it to run.
Tom1200
SuperDork
2/27/21 10:49 p.m.
For oil I use Valvoline VR-1 in my Datsun, its a flat tappet motor that regularly sees 8200 RPM.
As for the starting; the Datsun has Keihin FCR Flat Slide carbs which also have no choke. I pump the gas pedal 4-5 times, crank the car, it will catch run for 3 seconds then die, I pump the the peddle again and crank it again. It will catch on the second try. It idles rough for about 30-45 seconds after that you can just drive it.
Note my car has an electric fuel pump.
I would first pull the plugs and clean them If it was attempted to be started with out pumping the gas, it could be simply flooded by cranking it with no start. Easy to do and quite possibly a quick fix.
frenchyd said:
In reply to Mike (Forum Supporter) :
Hmm I suspect it's not that. Rather the nature of a race car. Webers have no choke. You have to keep pumping the gas to act as a choke. It's a kind of delicate dance between too much gas and flooding the plugs and too little and not getting enough fuel to start it.
If it's cold enough you have to cover the intake enough to act as a choke but open it up enough to allow it to run.
I appreciate the info, but I think I might have made a mistake in describing what I have. These are Webers, and they have a manual choke. I'll see about taking some photos tomorrow.
Don49 (Forum Supporter) said:
I would first pull the plugs and clean them If it was attempted to be started with out pumping the gas, it could be simply flooded by cranking it with no start. Easy to do and quite possibly a quick fix.
I certainly did try some cranking without pumping. I'll look at that!
I never use the choke on a Weber side draft carburettor. Neither should you. Disconnect the cable now. Most cars I give 2 pumps before I crank and they fire right up, but won't idle well or pull off the line well until they run a few minutes.
