Boy, is this a goverment program. It started yesterday. The website for dealer registration is one week late, and still crashes. The website to compare mileage has a "find the car tab" and "compare side by side" tab. Guess which one you use to find the car? Yup, the "compare side by side" tab. The rules for vehicle disposal are still being figured out, and the local scrap yards know nothing. Great planning, huh?
Just think what'll happen when Obama and Congress get through with health care. 
I'm gonna flounder myself.
Two words for all the people who are clamoring for "universal free healthcare":
Veterans. Administration.
At the risk of floundering myself, I think anyone getting gov't health care should get the SAME government health care. Veterans, Medicaid, congressmen, all of them. If nothing else, they'd save a bundle on commonizing paperwork/administration, and I'd really like to see congressmen getting the same care as veterans.
I probably missed it in one of the other threads...But how ARE the cars going to be disposed of?
I know they won't be resold as road cars. Will they be auctioned to salvage yards or...? Seems like it could cause a fall in steel prices, too.
ClemSparks wrote: I probably missed it in one of the other threads...But how ARE the cars going to be disposed of? I know they won't be resold as road cars. Will they be auctioned to salvage yards or...? Seems like it could cause a fall in steel prices, too.
From what I understand, at a bare minimum, the powertrain has to be 100% scrapped. More than likely, the body will go too. Hearing a report from an auto recycler, they are trying to figure out what parts they can salvage and do first order recycling.
The rest gets recycled into the metal "stream".
E-
alfadriver wrote: Hearing a report from an auto recycler, they are trying to figure out what parts they can salvage and do first order recycling. The rest gets recycled into the metal "stream". WHICH WE WILL SELL TO OUR COMMUNIST SAVIORS SO THEY CAN MELT IT DOWN IN THEIR NEW SUPER DIRTY COAL FIRED REVENUE GENERATOR E-
Fixed.
What I was really trying to ask is how will the transfer of the cars from the Dealer who takes them on trade to whoever they go to next...how will that work? (<--I just have no idea how to fix the sentence structure there so I'm rolling with it.)
Who owns the cars when the dealer takes them in? The government is giving a big check to the dealer for them, presumably.
Who they go to after that is also a consideration....is it purely a "scrapper" (who will crush and sell to a mill or whatever) or a recycler/dismantler?
Clem
Engine oil has to be drained and replaced by 2 quarts of a silica product. The car then has to be run until the motor seizes. A label has to be attached to the engine. The body / interior / glass of the car can be re-sold by the approved salvage yard. Then a four page check list has to be input to the DOT. The states are still trying to figure out whether the $3500 / $4500 is taxable. The 9 most scary words: "I'm from the goverment, and I'm here to help."
ClemSparks wrote: What I was really trying to ask is how will the transfer of the cars from the Dealer who takes them on trade to whoever they go to next...how will that work? (<--I just have no idea how to fix the sentence structure there so I'm rolling with it.) Who owns the cars when the dealer takes them in? The government is giving a big check to the dealer for them, presumably. Who they go to after that is also a consideration....is it purely a "scrapper" (who will crush and sell to a mill or whatever) or a recycler/dismantler? Clem
Nobody- they become scrapped titles. And then are destroyed. Just like scrapped cars are.
How much the recycler gets is still being worked out right now. At least no powertrains will be recycled- all have to be scrapped (which recycles the base materials).
E-
Just reading this is about enough to make me sick. To imagine this is being done by the thousands...
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/cash-for-clunkers-trade-ins-must-be-crushed-shredded/
THE MAN said: Engine Disablement Procedures for the CARS Program THIS PROCEDURE IS NOT TO BE USED BY THE VEHICLE OWNER Perform the following procedure to disable the vehicle engine. 1. Obtain solution of 40% sodium silicate/60% water. (The Sodium Silicate (SiO2/Na2O) must have a weight ratio of 3.0 or greater.) 2. Drain engine oil for environmentally appropriate disposal. 3. Install the oil drain plug. 4. Since the procedure is intended to render the engine inoperative, drive or move the vehicle to the desired area for disablement. 5. Pour enough solution in the engine through the oil fill for the oil pump to circulate the solution throughout the engine. Start by adding 2 quarts of the solution, which should be sufficient in most cases. CAUTION: Wear goggles and gloves. Appropriate protective clothing should be worn to prevent silicate solution from coming into contact with the skin. 6. Replace the oil fill cap. 7. Start the engine. 8. Run engine at approximately 2000 rpm (for safety reasons do not operate at high rpm) until the engine stops. (Typically the engine will operate for 3 to 7 minutes. As the solution starts to affect engine operation, the operator will have to apply more throttle to keep the engine at 2000 rpm.) 9. Allow the engine to cool for at least 1 hour. 10. With the battery at full charge or with auxiliary power to provide the power of a fully charged battery, attempt to start the engine. 11. If the engine will not operate at idle, the procedure is complete. 12. If the engine will operate at idle, repeat steps 7 through 11 until the engine will no longer idle. 13. Attach a label to the engine that legibly states the following: This engine is from a vehicle that is part of the Car Allowance Rebate System (CARS). It has significant internal damage caused by operating the engine with a sodium silicate solution (liquid glass) instead of oil.
Bryce
In reply to Duke:
OK, I don't post much and I normally avoid political threads like the plague, but I have to chime in on the government healthcare.
I love my adopted country, I love so many things about it, I love it enough to have become a Citizen. This country is my home.
BUT from the day I arrived it has been beyond me how the most powerful country in the world can have no universal public health system and have such a completely screwed up health system in general. I know most people have entrenched views on this, and no amount of debate will change peoples minds, but I have to have my say while everyone is making disparaging remarks.
On a more personal note, when I still lived in the UK I never met anyone with the following. 1. Had to declare bankruptcy in their each 20's as they were in a car accident (not their fault) and had over $1M (yup million) in legal fee's as they had no insurance 2. Lost their retirement after a snow mobile accident where they were given an emergency tracheotomy that the insurance company retroactively decided wasn't needed. They tried to fight it but ran out of money first 3. I know a woman who absolutely hates her job and hours but can't quit, why? She was in a car accident 15 years ago and still has complications as a result. Ever other job she's looked at in the last 12 years she can't take because a her pre existing condition 4. I've met people turned down for other pre existing conditions like PREGNANCY
National health services aren’t the be all and end all, they have issues and problems like everything else. But I always knew that if I had an accident or changed job's I would be fine over there. Not so here. Also a national health system doesn't prevent private insurance and private health schemes, they are very popular in most European countries, but the basics should be taken care of BY THE STATE.
I'm lucky, I have a good job with a large company and a choice of health plans, even with that I pay for most of my families health care out of pocket as most of what we do is out of the main stream of recognized 'health care' in this country.
It has always been and will continue to be a source of amazement to me that this great country doesn't see fit to look after the health of it's citizens.
Sounds very much like an urban legend. Especially since it's a complete waste of energy and time.
The car will be crushed/shredded.
E-
I can't see what cars will be clunked if not for old school classics ? Will they give you extra money besides $4500 for say a 1995 chevy truck will you get book plus $4500 ?
I have no problems with scores of front drive GM vehicles from the 90's being removed from existence. Somehow I have developed a deep seated dislike for those cars.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: In reply to Duke: OK, I don't post much and I normally avoid political threads like the plague, but I have to chime in on the government healthcare. I love my adopted country, I love so many things about it, I love it enough to have become a Citizen. This country is my home. BUT from the day I arrived it has been beyond me how the most powerful country in the world can have no universal public health system and have such a completely screwed up health system in general. I know most people have entrenched views on this, and no amount of debate will change peoples minds, but I have to have my say while everyone is making disparaging remarks. 1. This country has the highest per capita health spending of any country in the world yet rates 37th in health care systems (World Health Org) 2. Despite the massive spending on health care we rate 50th on life expectancy (Source the CIA the world Fact book) 3. Infant mortality, we rank 37th at 6.37 deaths per 1,000 live birth, behind Cuba for Gods sake On a more personal note, when I still lived in the UK I never met anyone with the following. 1. Had to declare bankruptcy in their each 20's as they were in a car accident (not their fault) and had over $1M (yup million) in legal fee's as they had no insurance 2. Lost their retirement after a snow mobile accident where they were given an emergency tracheotomy that the insurance company retroactively decided wasn't needed. They tried to fight it but ran out of money first 3. I know a woman who absolutely hates her job and hours but can't quit, why? She was in a car accident 15 years ago and still has complications as a result. Ever other job she's looked at in the last 12 years she can't take because a her pre existing condition 4. I've met people turned down for other pre existing conditions like PREGNANCY National health services aren’t the be all and end all, they have issues and problems like everything else. But I always knew that if I had an accident or changed job's I would be fine over there. Not so here. Also a national health system doesn't prevent private insurance and private health schemes, they are very popular in most European countries, but the basics should be taken care of BY THE STATE. I'm lucky, I have a good job with a large company and a choice of health plans, even with that I pay for most of my families health care out of pocket as most of what we do is out of the main stream of recognized 'health care' in this country. It has always been and will continue to be a source of amazement to me that this great country doesn't see fit to look after the health of it's citizens.
+10
My health insurance company just wrote me a letter telling me exactly what benefits they are cutting back on this year. I have health insurance through work. Even if you are covered by health insurance you are not really covered. Sickness in this country means a trip to bankruptcy court. This argument about 'government always screws up everything' repeated over and over again is getting to be pretty lame. The bottom line is that the goal of private health care companies is to make money, not make anybody well.
So legally requiring every citizen with a job to give money to the health insurance companies is the solution? (Not to mention enough money for all of those without jobs to have it as well)
I wonder if they'll let me kill my own engine.
MrJoshua wrote: So legally requiring every citizen with a job to give money to the health insurance companies is the solution? (Not to mention enough money for all of those without jobs to have it as well)
DING DING DING
Health insurance is the problem, not the solution. I'd be a lot less opposed to the idea of universal coverage if it didn't center on keeping / strengthening the insurance companies.
MrJoshua wrote: So legally requiring every citizen with a job to give money to the health insurance companies is the solution? (Not to mention enough money for all of those without jobs to have it as well)
It will be cheaper if everybody who can afford to can pay into the system has to do so. I'm not sure that the system Obama is proposing using health insurance companies is the best one available, but at least the discussion is on the table now.
Right now we have a system where people who are paying into the system are paying more than their own way while others who work and can afford it don't pay in at all. Some who are not even legally in this country, get hundreds in thousands in benefits and pay nothing, while others who have been working here all of our lives get sick and are forced into bankruptcy.
I don't think that is right.
Even people without jobs who drive are required to give money to the car insurance companies. Are you against this as well?
Everybody pays taxes to support the Fire Department yet only a few of us need their services. What kind of mess do you think we would have if we had multiple private fire departments out there, each one paid by multiple different fire insurance companies, and if your house burned down once, you could never get fire insurance again.
There is no free lunch. You will pay, either through taxes or through premiums but the current system the way it stands is insane. We need some reform.
Snowdoggie wrote:Adrian_Thompson wrote: In reply to Duke: OK, I don't post much and I normally avoid political threads like the plague, but I have to chime in on the government healthcare. I love my adopted country, I love so many things about it, I love it enough to have become a Citizen. This country is my home. BUT from the day I arrived it has been beyond me how the most powerful country in the world can have no universal public health system and have such a completely screwed up health system in general. I know most people have entrenched views on this, and no amount of debate will change peoples minds, but I have to have my say while everyone is making disparaging remarks. 1. This country has the highest per capita health spending of any country in the world yet rates 37th in health care systems (World Health Org) 2. Despite the massive spending on health care we rate 50th on life expectancy (Source the CIA the world Fact book) 3. Infant mortality, we rank 37th at 6.37 deaths per 1,000 live birth, behind Cuba for Gods sake On a more personal note, when I still lived in the UK I never met anyone with the following. 1. Had to declare bankruptcy in their each 20's as they were in a car accident (not their fault) and had over $1M (yup million) in legal fee's as they had no insurance 2. Lost their retirement after a snow mobile accident where they were given an emergency tracheotomy that the insurance company retroactively decided wasn't needed. They tried to fight it but ran out of money first 3. I know a woman who absolutely hates her job and hours but can't quit, why? She was in a car accident 15 years ago and still has complications as a result. Ever other job she's looked at in the last 12 years she can't take because a her pre existing condition 4. I've met people turned down for other pre existing conditions like PREGNANCY National health services aren’t the be all and end all, they have issues and problems like everything else. But I always knew that if I had an accident or changed job's I would be fine over there. Not so here. Also a national health system doesn't prevent private insurance and private health schemes, they are very popular in most European countries, but the basics should be taken care of BY THE STATE. I'm lucky, I have a good job with a large company and a choice of health plans, even with that I pay for most of my families health care out of pocket as most of what we do is out of the main stream of recognized 'health care' in this country. It has always been and will continue to be a source of amazement to me that this great country doesn't see fit to look after the health of it's citizens.+10 My health insurance company just wrote me a letter telling me exactly what benefits MY EMPLOYER are cutting back on this year. I have health insurance through work. Even if you are covered by health insurance you are not really covered. Sickness in this country means a trip to bankruptcy court. This argument about 'government always screws up everything' repeated over and over again is getting to be pretty lame. The bottom line is that the goal of private health care companies is to make money, not make anybody well.
Fixed.
You tipped me off when you said it was through your employed. That is not a self-funded account, it's what's called "ASO" standing for Administrative Services Only. Everytime a claim of yours is denied, it's because your employer didn't want to pay it. The insurance company does NOT pay your claims out of their pocket, they're using the employers money. The insurance company in your case makes their money by adjudicating claims,administering benefits, and providing the customer service.
And: Making money is the goal of every type of insurance company. It's the goal of everyone for that matter. The doctors and hospitals are treating you, they should be the ones with the goal of making everyone well. The health insurance companies are not capable of caring for you, 99.5% of them have no medical degrees.
DILYSI Dave wrote:MrJoshua wrote: So legally requiring every citizen with a job to give money to the health insurance companies is the solution? (Not to mention enough money for all of those without jobs to have it as well)DING DING DING Health insurance is the problem, not the solution. I'd be a lot less opposed to the idea of universal coverage if it didn't center on keeping / strengthening the insurance companies.
Health insurance is a portion of the problem. Do you know why your costs are going up? It's a vicious cycle.
Medical school is expensive. Equipment is expensive. They're getting MORE expensive. So the actual health care professionals, doctors, nurses, anesthesiologists, hospitals, physical therapists, so on and so for charge more. RIDICULOUS prices in fact. The health insurance companies have to negotiate an "allowed amount" "usual and customary fee" whatever you want to call it, with the providers if they want to contract.
That amount has been going up because the providers have been charging more and more, and that makes it harder to arrive at a low amount.
Everything keeps going up. The health insurance companies are more reacting to the situation if anything.
Everyone points their fingers at the insurance companies. Auto insurance, home owners insurance operates the SAME way, and there isn't thread upon thread complaining about it.
This goes for everyone in this thread. The next time you get a bill from a provider for an amount that you feel is outrageous, and you're dissatisfied with your insurance payment, Have your insurance Explanation of Benefits handy for that service. Notice the difference between the "Total Charge" and the "Allowed Amount."
This is assuming you're going in network. If you're going out of network, you're just asking for it, and as mean as it sounds, i have no sympathy for your situation.
That different between the total charge and allowed amount is provider write off. If you have one major service a year, that makes up for your premiums. In one shot. One inpatient claim.
Gotta put this all in perspective. I don't see anyone complaining about the costs of medical school. I don't see anyone complaining about the provider's charges.
I guess it's just easier to point the blame at an insurance company, because all such companies are evil?
I complain about ALL insurance. The difference between health and the others is that health has created a monopoly where even with the capability to pay you almost cannot get the service without using insurance. Not so with auto or homeowners.
93celicaGT2 wrote:Snowdoggie wrote:Fixed. You tipped me off when you said it was through your employed. That is not a self-funded account, it's what's called "ASO" standing for Administrative Services Only. Everytime a claim of yours is denied, it's because your employer didn't want to pay it. The insurance company does NOT pay your claims out of their pocket, they're using the employers money. The insurance company in your case makes their money by adjudicating claims,administering benefits, and providing the customer service. And: Making money is the goal of every type of insurance company. It's the goal of everyone for that matter. The doctors and hospitals are treating you, they should be the ones with the goal of making everyone well. The health insurance companies are not capable of caring for you, 99.5% of them have no medical degrees.Adrian_Thompson wrote: In reply to Duke: OK, I don't post much and I normally avoid political threads like the plague, but I have to chime in on the government healthcare. I love my adopted country, I love so many things about it, I love it enough to have become a Citizen. This country is my home. BUT from the day I arrived it has been beyond me how the most powerful country in the world can have no universal public health system and have such a completely screwed up health system in general. I know most people have entrenched views on this, and no amount of debate will change peoples minds, but I have to have my say while everyone is making disparaging remarks. 1. This country has the highest per capita health spending of any country in the world yet rates 37th in health care systems (World Health Org) 2. Despite the massive spending on health care we rate 50th on life expectancy (Source the CIA the world Fact book) 3. Infant mortality, we rank 37th at 6.37 deaths per 1,000 live birth, behind Cuba for Gods sake On a more personal note, when I still lived in the UK I never met anyone with the following. 1. Had to declare bankruptcy in their each 20's as they were in a car accident (not their fault) and had over $1M (yup million) in legal fee's as they had no insurance 2. Lost their retirement after a snow mobile accident where they were given an emergency tracheotomy that the insurance company retroactively decided wasn't needed. They tried to fight it but ran out of money first 3. I know a woman who absolutely hates her job and hours but can't quit, why? She was in a car accident 15 years ago and still has complications as a result. Ever other job she's looked at in the last 12 years she can't take because a her pre existing condition 4. I've met people turned down for other pre existing conditions like PREGNANCY National health services aren’t the be all and end all, they have issues and problems like everything else. But I always knew that if I had an accident or changed job's I would be fine over there. Not so here. Also a national health system doesn't prevent private insurance and private health schemes, they are very popular in most European countries, but the basics should be taken care of BY THE STATE. I'm lucky, I have a good job with a large company and a choice of health plans, even with that I pay for most of my families health care out of pocket as most of what we do is out of the main stream of recognized 'health care' in this country. It has always been and will continue to be a source of amazement to me that this great country doesn't see fit to look after the health of it's citizens.+10 My health insurance company just wrote me a letter telling me exactly what benefits MY EMPLOYER are cutting back on this year. I have health insurance through work. Even if you are covered by health insurance you are not really covered. Sickness in this country means a trip to bankruptcy court. This argument about 'government always screws up everything' repeated over and over again is getting to be pretty lame. The bottom line is that the goal of private health care companies is to make money, not make anybody well.
Actually I have not had any claims denied except for one involving my dentist cleaning my teeth more times a year than the insurance company liked and that was about $100. I am rather healthy for my age. I don't drink the high fructose corn syrup and and exercise regularly. I received a letter from my health insurance company telling my what benefits for hospitalization they were cutting back on this year. I realized that if I really got sick I would be screwed.
The goal of the government based healthcare systems in Europe and Canada is NOT to make money and they are less expensive than our system. Their doctors still make enough money to drive nice cars and live in big houses but their administrative costs are lower. They don't have people sitting around in offices denying claims. They pay doctors and nurses, not administrators and paper pushers.
I have friends who are legal administrators who despise dealing with health insurance companies for their employees. The paperwork involved is time consuming and it takes money to process that paperwork. Ask any doctor how much money they spend and how many people they hire to process insurance claims and get payment. There is a lot of waste in the current system.
Snowdoggie wrote:93celicaGT2 wrote:Actually I have not had any claims denied except for one involving my dentist cleaning my teeth more times a year than the insurance company liked and that was about $100. I am rather healthy for my age. I don't drink the high fructose corn syrup and and exercise regularly. I received a letter from my health insurance company telling my what benefits for hospitalization they were cutting back on this year. I realized that if I really got sick I would be screwed. The goal of the government based healthcare systems in Europe and Canada is NOT to make money and they are less expensive than our system. Their doctors still make enough money to drive nice cars and live in big houses but their administrative costs are lower. They don't have people sitting around in offices denying claims. They pay doctors and nurses, not administrators and paper pushers. I have friends who are legal administrators who despise dealing with health insurance companies for their employees. The paperwork involved is time consuming and it takes money to process that paperwork. Ask any doctor how much money they spend and how many people they hire to process insurance claims and get payment. There is a lot of waste in the current system.Snowdoggie wrote:Fixed. You tipped me off when you said it was through your employed. That is not a self-funded account, it's what's called "ASO" standing for Administrative Services Only. Everytime a claim of yours is denied, it's because your employer didn't want to pay it. The insurance company does NOT pay your claims out of their pocket, they're using the employers money. The insurance company in your case makes their money by adjudicating claims,administering benefits, and providing the customer service. And: Making money is the goal of every type of insurance company. It's the goal of everyone for that matter. The doctors and hospitals are treating you, they should be the ones with the goal of making everyone well. The health insurance companies are not capable of caring for you, 99.5% of them have no medical degrees.Adrian_Thompson wrote: In reply to Duke: OK, I don't post much and I normally avoid political threads like the plague, but I have to chime in on the government healthcare. I love my adopted country, I love so many things about it, I love it enough to have become a Citizen. This country is my home. BUT from the day I arrived it has been beyond me how the most powerful country in the world can have no universal public health system and have such a completely screwed up health system in general. I know most people have entrenched views on this, and no amount of debate will change peoples minds, but I have to have my say while everyone is making disparaging remarks. 1. This country has the highest per capita health spending of any country in the world yet rates 37th in health care systems (World Health Org) 2. Despite the massive spending on health care we rate 50th on life expectancy (Source the CIA the world Fact book) 3. Infant mortality, we rank 37th at 6.37 deaths per 1,000 live birth, behind Cuba for Gods sake On a more personal note, when I still lived in the UK I never met anyone with the following. 1. Had to declare bankruptcy in their each 20's as they were in a car accident (not their fault) and had over $1M (yup million) in legal fee's as they had no insurance 2. Lost their retirement after a snow mobile accident where they were given an emergency tracheotomy that the insurance company retroactively decided wasn't needed. They tried to fight it but ran out of money first 3. I know a woman who absolutely hates her job and hours but can't quit, why? She was in a car accident 15 years ago and still has complications as a result. Ever other job she's looked at in the last 12 years she can't take because a her pre existing condition 4. I've met people turned down for other pre existing conditions like PREGNANCY National health services aren’t the be all and end all, they have issues and problems like everything else. But I always knew that if I had an accident or changed job's I would be fine over there. Not so here. Also a national health system doesn't prevent private insurance and private health schemes, they are very popular in most European countries, but the basics should be taken care of BY THE STATE. I'm lucky, I have a good job with a large company and a choice of health plans, even with that I pay for most of my families health care out of pocket as most of what we do is out of the main stream of recognized 'health care' in this country. It has always been and will continue to be a source of amazement to me that this great country doesn't see fit to look after the health of it's citizens.+10 My health insurance company just wrote me a letter telling me exactly what benefits MY EMPLOYER are cutting back on this year. I have health insurance through work. Even if you are covered by health insurance you are not really covered. Sickness in this country means a trip to bankruptcy court. This argument about 'government always screws up everything' repeated over and over again is getting to be pretty lame. The bottom line is that the goal of private health care companies is to make money, not make anybody well.
Again, you've got it messed up again. Your insurance company handles administrative services only. If you got any part of it cut back, it was by order of your EMPLOYER. However, because the insurance company administers the policy, they are responsible for letting you know the changes on a certain level.
The insurance company in your case CANNOT legally change your plan without being ordered to do so by your employer. If you believe they have, then you need to report it to your employer immediately. But, i'm 110% sure that they already know that the changes were made.
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