Challenge Budget and rules questions

So with the challenge still fresh in everyones thoughts, I had some questions for next year. In the interest of staying fully transparent and to give me an idea on the things I should be looking out for.

I'll start by saying this is my winter beater and rallycross car that I'm hoping survives till September to make it to the challenge, so with it not being a challenge exclusive build I just want to clarify things early.

-Shipping on parts counts but sales tax doesn't?

-Car audio: I replaced the head unit and speakers planning to sell for recoup, but if the ones I put in will count against budget, I'll pull them out when I get to FL

Registrations and insurance and all that fun stuff doesn't count.

Does the $5 I spent on the Torque app count? I can't tune with it, but it is good for testing times/speed

How about wear items between now and the challenge? Like say I go through 3 sets of brake pads between now and then, do they all count or just the ones on the car at the challenge? In that vein, the control arm and balljoint I replaced that were messed up when I bought the car?

I know I get 4 free tires, does that include wheels too or just tires? I have a feeling I'm going to wind up with 6 wheels I bring to the challenge plus the set on the car to drive down. 4 with autocross tires, 2 with drag radials IF I can find takeoffs somewhere. I'm guessing all the wheels I buy will count against budget. But, and this is a big but, what if I trade (somehow) the spare wheels I have for the miata for a set for the Vic? Will those just be FMV for the Vic?

"Nominal amounts of fluids" ... does that mean topping off the tranny or brakes, or can I change the fluid without it counting?

If I'm expecting to run a 15 second quarter mile, what does the NHRA/GRM feel I need safety wise? In this vein, would the cost of going to a test n tune night at the local dragstrip count against budget?

I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future, just trying to get a better idea of where I'm at right now budget wise, and what I'll have to spend.

As I understand it having just recently done my first. Maintenance/repairs that are not a performance gain item do not count. All brake components do not count. All wheels count unless the set on the car to begin with. 4 tires are excluded. Your street tires you drive down with don't count unless you use them in any part of competition. The rest counts. 15 sec drag times only require standard seat belts at a minimum. Fluids are essentially free...oil change ....differentI also fluid change...tranny fluid.

Entry fees for Testing do not count.

Tools you buy to work on it don't count.

I don't understand the crown vic/miata question. Is your car a Miata or crowm? You can't trade parts from one car that isn't part of your build for parts that are.

As to ball joint and control arm that were messed up when you bought car....you would count those as they were part of reason car was cheap to begin with. As an example my car had worn out camber bushings in rear when I bought. Replaced those but I had to declare in my budget because they were shot when I bought car.

Conversely, my water pump was replaced with a reverse flow high volume wp thar allowed me to eliminate ac and smog pump. Had to include in my budget due to performance gain (weight reduction and better cooling).

In reply to GTXVette:

For the receipts I have for the Miata, I don't think that's a possibility.

I think I worded the crown vic to miata part wrong. I have a bunch of wheels sitting around, that if I sell the wheels that's just my money and nothing to do with budget. But say I traded them to one of the mustang guys in the local regions for their stock take offs, would I just declare FMV for their wheels(whatever stock or steel mustang wheels go for these days)?

That makes sense about the balljoint and arm. It's what I thought, I just wanted to make sure. I already have a lot of receipts I need to copy and sort to figure out where I'm at budget wise.

Answers are pretty close so far.

Yes, FMV works for wheels.

Maintenance/ wear items TO PUT THE CAR BACK IN THE CONDITION YOU BOUGHT IT don't count. If they were old and busted (and therefore part of why the car was cheap), yeah, they count.

OEM brake components don't count. Upgrades DO.

Torque app does not count, unless it is used on the car at the event. But you will earn a few Brownie points if you put it in your budget.

If I buy a parts car for 500, then sell parts off of it and that totals greater than 500 but gets me to the half way point 1008 is that proper? Or am I limited to the original total purchase of the parts car?

No limit to original purchase price anymore. Just the $1008.50 limit total. We actually thinking about buying an whole parts car for the front axle so we can make money off the rest.

Stampie wrote: No limit to original purchase price anymore. Just the $1008.50 limit total.

Wait, what? So the total purchase price of the main car can be over $2017 as long as you get it back under $2017 with the recoup money?

So say i bought a vehicle and had it stored in Jacksonville at stampie's. Hurricane killed the crack free windshield. Is a used windshield exempt because act of nature murdered it and i'm only returning it to as purchased condition?

t25torx wrote:

Stampie wrote: No limit to original purchase price anymore. Just the $1008.50 limit total.

Wait, what? So the total purchase price of the main car can be over $2017 as long as you get it back under $2017 with the recoup money?

No, rules still say initial price can't exceed 2017

Can you purchase a car for more than the 2017 initial purchas price and then sell stuff off to get back under the total 2017 value of the car?

For instance. I found a v8 a6 for 2500 if I take the interior out of it and sell it for 600 am I now under budget?

In reply to dean1484:

No

In reply to t25torx:

I should have worded that better. No limit of recovery to no more than the purchase price.

patgizz wrote: So say i bought a vehicle and had it stored in Jacksonville at stampie's. Hurricane killed the crack free windshield. Is a used windshield exempt because act of nature murdered it and i'm only returning it to as purchased condition?

I would consider your broken windshield to be an unfortunate event that happened after purchase. Not a hit to budget.

Similarly, on the van, I replaced a radiator fan while in Washington DC after having the van for a few months. I bought the van months earlier with a good fan and started that trip with a good fan. Having the fan go bad was an unfortunate event after purchase. I did not put this replacement fan into my budget.

Had I bought the van with a bad fan, which would mean the fan was one of the reasons I got the van cheap, then I would expect to put the replacement fan into the budget.

Paying for labor counts towards the budget, I won't question that, it's pretty explicitly written in the rules.

What about trading for labor? Say a 6 pack to a friend to do some welding, or a case to help with a big job? Is the cost of beer then considered the labor cost?

If the friend is a member of your team, no cost.

In reply to RevRico:

I used child labor from three kids 10 and under to help finish my car. Their reward was they got to play in a team members pool once they finished.

Since we are on this subject of FMV, how do you budget a transmission built by yourself almost, at least? EEK!!, 15 yrs ago and never used?

Ranger50 wrote: Since we are on this subject of FMV, how do you budget a transmission built by yourself almost, at least? EEK!!, 15 yrs ago and never used?

i generally have receipts for stuff that old in my stash. i'd include the parts that went in plus whatever i paid for the case.

patgizz wrote:

Ranger50 wrote: Since we are on this subject of FMV, how do you budget a transmission built by yourself almost, at least? EEK!!, 15 yrs ago and never used?

i generally have receipts for stuff that old in my stash. i'd include the parts that went in plus whatever i paid for the case.

I don't anymore. 4 moves, 1 divorce, 3 states.... If I have to, I can build another, just not the same as the one I already have in storage.

JohnRW1621 wrote:

patgizz wrote: So say i bought a vehicle and had it stored in Jacksonville at stampie's. Hurricane killed the crack free windshield. Is a used windshield exempt because act of nature murdered it and i'm only returning it to as purchased condition?

I would consider your broken windshield to be an unfortunate event that happened after purchase. Not a hit to budget. Similarly, on the van, I replaced a radiator fan while in Washington DC after having the van for a few months. I bought the van months earlier with a good fan and started that trip with a good fan. Having the fan go bad was an unfortunate event after purchase. I did not put this replacement fan into my budget. Had I bought the van with a bad fan, which would mean the fan was one of the reasons I got the van cheap, then I would expect to put the replacement fan into the budget.

That's just how I thought it should work. But since I didn't know for sure I included things like tie rod ends on the budget sheet that went bad after I'd put many thousands of miles on the car. (I did put them in there own category though on the sheet) That's really good news! There's a much better chance now that you'll see the Opel again next year since I have a little budget room now.

Ranger50 wrote: Since we are on this subject of FMV, how do you budget a transmission built by yourself almost, at least? EEK!!, 15 yrs ago and never used?

Start a thread on this board and ask what people think the FMV is. Use that number.

Hi all! I''ve gone to two Challenge events, and now that I'm living in FL, I'm thinking about jumping into the 2017 event. I have a few questions as I'm considering doing the event, but I'd like to build the car in multiple stages along the way (ie:1st stage=$2017, 2nd=$6000, $15K), although I need some clarification. Questions are as follows;

1. I plan on purchasing two vehicles to create one racecar. One vehicle is $300, the other $1600 (total under budget). I'm using a greater number of parts off of the $1600 car compared to the $300 car. Will my recoup value then be based off of the $1600 car? Is it based off the number of parts used?

2.Since I am using most of the parts from the more expensive vehicle onto the cheaper car, will the only items I need to catalog be parts purchased OUTSIDE of the parts already incorporated in both donars?

All help's appreciated.

In reply to 2GRX7:

The way I read that is your Challenge vehicle has a purchase price of $300. Your parts car has a purchase price of $1600. You can recover $1008.50 total from both vehicles by selling excess parts but no more than $300 from the Challenge car and no more than $1008.50 from the parts car.

In this example say you sell off $300 from the Challenge car. You can now sell off $708.50 from the parts car. If you sell nothing from the Challenge car you can sell up to $1008.50 from the parts car. You can do anything in between but can not sell off more than $1008.50 total.

NOTE:

There is a LOT of incorrect stuff in this thread about budget, including some stuff I said. Pretty much anything said after the event but before the new rules were released is incorrect.

Bottom line- you CANT recoup more than the individual purchase amount of any item in the build.

Ah! So, that $1008.50 is simply based on only being able to recoup "half" of the yearly budget value? Also, if you're using substantially more parts from one "parts"vehicle to another, it's still considered the $300 dollar vehicle in name even though i'm only using the body? Thanks