Challenge Budget and rules questions

patgizz wrote:

tripp wrote: Are trades still allowed in the budget? I haven't read the latest revision of the rules but have recruited an accountant for my team. Of trades are still allowed they can help with the example of a $300 car with extra parts

I don't know what the exact wording is but it was along the lines of "trades allowed until you hit the recoup limit"

That's not correct. That is the way the old rules read. The new rules do not say.

The only 2 mentions in the current rules regarding trading are:

"You may not factor gains or losses made from buying, selling or trading unrelated parts into your budget."

"Any inside deals—parts, whole cars, trades, donations, stolen parts, etc.—must be added to the budget at fair market value."

$2017 Challenge Rules

Apparently, trading is allowed, but the limit is not clearly defined. (Not that it was very clear before!)

You are talking about a $350 purchase price for 2 complete cars, right?Personally, I'd just leave them in the budget, and use the 2nd one for spares, trades, swaps, etc.

minivan_racer wrote: If the CL ad says "2 cars" as the title and the price is $800 and you buy both and use car A for a challenge car and sell car B for $500, then I would include a print out of the ad and a receipt to the buyer of car B as evidence of $300 invested for the purchase of car A.

There is nothing wrong with doing that, but the $500 should probably hit the recoup.

It was a package deal. The purchase price was based on buying both cars, not one. One car was not available for sale for $300 (or at any price).

I've got a lot of crap in my yard, and will offer MUCH bigger discounts to anyone who removes more than one car at once.

minivan_racer wrote: The following is the opinion of minivan_racer and not an official ruling by anyone. If the CL ad says "2 cars" as the title and the price is $800 and you buy both and use car A for a challenge car and sell car B for $500, then I would include a print out of the ad and a receipt to the buyer of car B as evidence of $300 invested for the purchase of car A.

Too complicated, especially since I'm not selling the other car any time soon. So I guess for all of the $350 I'm into the pair of cars with a stash of parts, I guess including both cars in the budget will be okay.

spin_out wrote: Darkbuddha, Two XR4TIs? We are bringing a 2.3 turbo this year.

Yeah... I bought the pair that were on craigslist a bit ago... they were technically "in the neighborhood", not even 3 miles from the house. It was too good to pass up. The cars were abandoned at a storage place about 4 years ago, so they got a an abandoned vehicle title from the state for the "complete" one and included the other shell without title. If I said the parts that were on the "compete" car, someone would surely cry foul, but suffice it to say that I got a damn killer deal in terms of parts alone. And fortunately (and crazily), I was able to track down the previous owner who had moved to Miami, then Naples, and then back locally. He has been hugely magnanimous in answering questions, and even gave me the title to the shell in trade for a pair of DJ'ing turntables that were the parts stash that came with the cars. I don't know how to included that in the budget, but seems zero-sum to me.

Anyway, not sure if I'm going 2.3 turbo with the car or V8 swap yet, as I have both. Both cars were/are automatics, which I don't plan to change, but the auto that came in the "complete" car either needs a rebuild or to be replaced. At that point, finding a good c4 or AOD for the V8 swap seems as reasonable.

In reply to darkbuddha:

Wyatt, cool to see ya doing the Challenge! This is Andy that used to drive the Gulf-striped e30. I'm bringing a lowered Chevy truck this year.

Lof8 wrote: In reply to darkbuddha: Wyatt, cool to see ya doing the Challenge! This is Andy that used to drive the Gulf-striped e30. I'm bringing a lowered Chevy truck this year.

Hey! It's way overdue for me... been hoping to for far too long... like since the first challenge. The purchase of these two XRs will hopefully give me my first shot.

Wyatt, You know me from PCA autocrosses at the Sarasota dog track. I'd love to see you come with a 2.3 turbo, but a V-8 probably makes more sense. I've been wanting to bring a XR$Ti (not a typo) to the Challenge for 10 years, but it's never worked out.

You only have about 6 months before The Challenge, so get building if you are even dreaming of getting in some testing. Cars that show up without testing usually don't do well. Oh, and Rims. Tires are budget exempt, so hunt down some wide rims. Cobra? (Psst, here's a bad idea. Think Rover V-8. All aluminum and light)

In reply to spin_out:

Tires are exempt but wheels are not as I understand it. At least I include my wheels in my budget.

In reply to GTXVette:

LOL

Yeah but my car is so unbelievely awesome every body knows I am cheating...NOT

O&F, I was saying he should spend his budget money on rims that would take fat tires.

spin_out wrote: You only have about 6 months before The Challenge, so get building if you are even dreaming of getting in some testing. Cars that show up without testing usually don't do well. Oh, and Rims. Tires are budget exempt, so hunt down some wide rims. Cobra? (Psst, here's a bad idea. Think Rover V-8. All aluminum and light)

Given its my first challenge, I have no expectation of doing well. Still, I'd like to at least finish, which might be the one reason I do go 2.3 turbo, because that would be easier and quicker to accomplish, giving time for some modicum of testing.

As for wheels, I have several budget friendly sets I've picked up over the years, but all are 7". I should be able to get a 225 on them without clearance issues, so, the tires I buy will have to be pretty sticky I guess.

In reply to darkbuddha:

Agree totally. First time Keep it simple and enjoy yourself. That's what we did in our maiden event last year and wound up 20th of 44 in our $984 piece of e36 m3 build. But I think we were in top 5 of having fun

In reply to darkbuddha:

Sounds like you have the same goals as I do for my first challenge outing: not DFL, OR most spectacular failure.

I'm bringing down my winter beater with hopes it makes a rally cross or two along the way and survives the drive.

In reply to RevRico:

Now that sounds like an epic adventure. Do start a thread if you do that!

I've made the podium. I'm ready for Most Spectacular Failure.

In reply to darkbuddha:

build thread needed!

Lof8 wrote: In reply to darkbuddha: build thread needed!

I will start one when work begins in earnest. Right now it would just be pictures of a pair of filthy and forlorn XRs rotting away and being dragged home. Hardly worthy of posting yet.

In reply to darkbuddha:

I think I have a build thread and the only thing in it is a parts car that I decided not to even use.

Cobra rims come in 17x9 and 17x10. Merkurs like 275 Hoosiers. Just saying. I have 2 rims at the house, but these are sets.

https://orlando.craigslist.org/wto/6070276372.html https://tampa.craigslist.org/hdo/wto/6070366324.html

In reply to spin_out:

I think that would require more "clearancing" than I'd prefer to do to this car. Though, I do have the shell...

Another challenge budget question:

For budget purposes, how would it work if you swap parts from your challenge car(s) for parts from a non-challenge car? For example: I want to swap a radiator out of my challenge car for the radiator I have in another car that I've owned for years. Do I assign a FMV for both and put the difference against the budget? What if FMV would create a credit to the budget (i.e. the radiator I swap out is has a higher FMV than the radiator I'm swapping in)?

In reply to GTXVette:

I'm just trying to be as legit as possible and not get caught cheating when someone reviews my future build thread pics.

i think you(general, nobody in particular) probably are an issue at the challenge if you think you need to cheat.

darkbuddha wrote: Another challenge budget question: For budget purposes, how would it work if you swap parts from your challenge car(s) for parts from a non-challenge car? For example: I want to swap a radiator out of my challenge car for the radiator I have in another car that I've owned for years. Do I assign a FMV for both and put the difference against the budget? What if FMV would create a credit to the budget (i.e. the radiator I swap out is has a higher FMV than the radiator I'm swapping in)?

If you're swapping it tends to mean one is better than the other, and therefore there should be a value difference, however slight (assuming both are stock or oem replacement and both work).

However, this is starting to split hairs. I'm not sure I'd worry about it too much (again, if both parts are essentially the same).

patgizz wrote: i think you(general, nobody in particular) probably are an issue at the challenge if you think you need to cheat.

Yeah... I meant my comment jokingly. This being my first challenge, and that I'm simply not a very competitive person generally (though I do enjoy the experience of competition), and that I really do value my integrity, I'm doing everything within reason to avoid even the appearance of impropriety. I don't want to cheat, even accidentally.

Robbie wrote: If you're swapping it tends to mean one is better than the other, and therefore there should be a value difference, however slight (assuming both are stock or oem replacement and both work). However, this is starting to split hairs. I'm not sure I'd worry about it too much (again, if both parts are essentially the same).

There is a value difference... the outgoing is a nice aftermarket aluminum radiator that is worth about 3x the one I'd swap in, which is an oem style. But, it'll be a zero-sum swap because the difference would be eaten up by the value of the intercooler that also comes with the oem style radiator. I'm just trying to be honest, fair, and reasonable, without shooting myself in the foot or taking an unfair advantage.

Swapping parts that did not come with the purchase requires an accounting in the budget, whether it is positive or negative.

Failure to do so is cheating.

If you are looking to take any advantage you can and not feel bad about it including cheating, please don't come. It's not that kind of event.