I traded my last year car away straight up. Now I found a guy that wantsto trade for what I have now but it is worth way more than challenge $. If I am not able to build my current planned car can I bring the traded twice car ?
V8 240sx to sr20det 240sx to ??? No cash has traded hands.
Honestly, I have no quarrel with this.
If he's trading straight up, then he's accepting the amount of money you have in the car as payment.
But could it be ran in the 2013 challenge or do I just have to finish current build? I know I have time but it's a cash-flow issue. My last trip cost 1500 not including entry fees.
If the powers that be agree with what Ben and I believe, you're fine.
Worst thing that can happen is get booted from scoring for it.
I'm a little confused (not hard to do) but I think your trade sounds fair. I really don't want this opening the floodgates with all kind of crazy trade deals, though. In this case, sounds like you're trying to make the event, not expose a loophole.
stan_d wrote: But could it be ran in the 2013 challenge or do I just have to finish current build? I know I have time but it's a cash-flow issue. My last trip cost 1500 not including entry fees.
I don't see the problem.
You build your V8 240 for under $2013. You traded it for an SR20 240. That dude accepted less than $2013 for his car.
Now you have car that you purchased for less than $2013. You have less than $2013 into it.
Challenge time!
I don't have anything at stake here, but it sounds to me like everyone is willing to disregard the value of the labor and talent invested in the Challenge car.
In other words, is the fair market value of a completed and running Challenge car no more than the cost of the parts gathered to assemble it?
So if I build a car for $2000 and it is so awesome that someone is willing to trade me for a $10,000 car - is the value of my car $2000 or is it equal to the fair market value of the traded vehicle?
And how do you police value added to the Challenge car post-event? I entered the car in the 2012 Challenge, but then added better wheels, seats and more before I traded it for _.
I don't think this is the OP's intent, but it is a loophole.
bring it. i am angrycorvair and i approve of this message.
bludroptop wrote: I don't have anything at stake here, but it sounds to me like everyone is willing to disregard the value of the labor and talent invested in the Challenge car. In other words, is the fair market value of a completed and running Challenge car no more than the cost of the parts gathered to assemble it? So if I build a car for $2000 and it is so awesome that someone is willing to trade me for a $10,000 car - is the value of my car $2000 or is it equal to the fair market value of the traded vehicle? And how do you police value added to the Challenge car post-event? I entered the car in the 2012 Challenge, but then added better wheels, seats and more before I traded it for _______. I don't think this is the OP's intent, but it is a loophole.
Point 1, considering some of the shop cars that have competed, I'd say thats null and void.
Point 2, and labor if farmed out
Point 3, This is where they need to pay attention....and the loophole part of things. If something is way over the top and out of hand, then yes, they need excluded. I'd see it as a "Within reason" clause.
Point 4, If those better parts were added after the event and pushed it over prior value, it would be disallowed.
Point 5, I don't think its the OP's intent, and as I've been told in the past when I voiced concerns over my car due to the expense of the parts from the previous owner, its an event mainly for our fun and something for them to write about.
Personally, I think Stan is just trying to make the challenge and is on a budget, like myself, to even get there. Now if this car completely dominates, then I can understand the concern. It is a very slippery slope.
Traded, Brought, Whipped.
In that order.
bludroptop wrote: And how do you police value added to the Challenge car post-event? I entered the car in the 2012 Challenge, but then added better wheels, seats and more before I traded it for _______. I don't think this is the OP's intent, but it is a loophole.
we don't police it. each builder polices himself. and because we are all GRM, we live to a code of honor higher than the "showroom stock" competitors in some sanctioning bodies. and we trust our fellow Challengers.
at the end of the day, what does the winner actually win? a set of tires. awesome. how much does it cost to transport a challenge car, pay for lodging / food / beer / entry fees, etc? it's cheaper to go pay retail for tires!
AngryCorvair wrote:bludroptop wrote: And how do you police value added to the Challenge car post-event? I entered the car in the 2012 Challenge, but then added better wheels, seats and more before I traded it for _______. I don't think this is the OP's intent, but it is a loophole.we don't police it. each builder polices himself. and because we are all GRM, we live to a code of honor higher than the "showroom stock" competitors in some sanctioning bodies. and we trust our fellow Challengers. at the end of the day, what does the winner actually win? a set of tires. awesome. how much does it cost to transport a challenge car, pay for lodging / food / beer / entry fees, etc? it's cheaper to go pay retail for tires!
I just show up for the beer.
And apparently to have my turbo fall off.
Your budget is $20XX, but your time is free. If you spend $800 in parts but spend 300 hours on the car—careful painting, wire tuck, etc.—sure, those add value in the real market. The very nature of the event encourages people to get their hands dirty and increase the value of their car by an amount higher than their monetary investment. If memory serves, the Terry Fair/Vorshlag V8 BMW E30 was sold after the event for more than $20,000. But the budget for his car was carefully done and he stayed within the rules.
The SDAC Scaries, the Nelson clan's drag cars and the Evil Ducky MR2 are likely worth a pretty penny, too, if they were ever to sell. Hell, many of the cars that attend would sell for more than $2013.
But we're not asking how much your car is worth. We're asking how much you spent. In this case, the amount spent is legitimate, but we haven't fleshed out a section of the rules to include car trades such as these. If it becomes a problem, we'll address it in the rules. For now, we'll deal with it case by case.
Did the E30 have a Watts Link? 
the whole "careful budget....stay within the rules" mention of a certain v8 e30 is a load of horse crap. when a shop builds a car "in spare time/no labor paid" that's a whole new layer of stuff that keeps the small guys from trying. let alone when it's touted that their "$2000" car sold for 20 grand.
patgizz wrote: the whole "careful budget....stay within the rules" mention of a certain v8 e30 is a load of horse crap. when a shop builds a car "in spare time/no labor paid" that's a whole new layer of stuff that keeps the small guys from trying. let alone when it's touted that their "$2000" car sold for 20 grand.
To be Fair, the car did have quite a bit of additional work done to it before it sold for $20k.
In reply to Swank Force One:
Completely different engine IIRC......
Actually I took parts off before I traded it kept all race rubber alum seat intercooler piping oil tank and lines. I gave him the smoked turbo and the exhaust to return it to na. Ian hoping to have the next one built and this will be moot. I always like to have plans b and c in my back pocket.
Swank Force One wrote: Did the E30 have a Watts Link?
I just now noticed this.....many 
's for those in the know.
Stan, I can't wait to see whats planned. 
To me it sounds like the correct way to do it is like this.
Car A had a budget of X amount. Then you removed parts, making that amount Y. You then traded for car B. Car B is now worth Y amount. Add or subtract whatever has been done to it to date, it is now worth Z. If you trade Car B for Car C, Car C is now worth Z.
As long as you can document that at no point you traded something worth more than the budget for something else, without selling off to bring it back within budget, I would hope you'd be ok.
Slippery slope though. For the sake of argument - if Terry had traded his E30 (lets assume no changes made) for a E46 M3 instead of $20k, would that have been fair game?
Everyone has seen their builds and knows the integrity is there. Sounds legit and he's being completely open about. No hanky panky detected.
Nathan JansenvanDoorn wrote: Slippery slope though. For the sake of argument - if Terry had traded his E30 (lets assume no changes made) for a E46 M3 instead of $20k, would that have been Fair game?
You have no idea how funny this is with just one small simple change.
I don't have an issue with this. Stan is a repeat Challenger, and it looks to me like he's trying to get back there on a budget like many of the rest of us.
That said, if a pro shop wants to build a car, let them. Just because a pro shop builds something, it doesn't mean it's going to perform well or be something the judges like. It's not all about appearances and the slickness of a build; it's what the judges think is "cool" and how the car performs. I have seen pro-built cars fizzle when it comes down to the wire, so don't be afraid of them. The more these shops try, the more the word gets spread about the Challenge, which is a good thing.
Our Jeep was painted in a driveway last year, and our former Miata was built mostly in a dirty and muddy spot in Pseudosport's parents' yard. Both vehicles performed well and scored well in the concourse. I'm sure many others on here have similar accommodations. 
Besides, those who go down there just for the competition are missing most of what makes the Challenge fun. To me (and many others, I'm sure) it's like a yearly reunion of strange gearheads that have crazy ideas and funny stories to tell. You win a set of tires if you win the whole thing.
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