Challenge veterans, guide me

I'm in a bit of a conundrum about how to proceed with my Challenge build. This being my first Challenge, I've already set my lofty goals at just making it there, having fun, and not breaking/dnf'ing. But I could use some advice/guidance on choosing which of the ways I've mapped out to proceed with my first Challengender build.

The car is an XR4TI auto (plus another shell, and a hoard of parts), purchased for $350. The general plan is to clean the car up, do some basic maintenance items, rear disc conversion, cheap wheels, good tires, a couple used seats, harness bar and harnesses. Maybe add an Eaton or e36 LSD diff conversion.

Option 1, the minimal approach, total budget under $1000: work with the stock turbo 2.3, maybe swap to overdrive trans, a few performance mods, intercooler.

Option 2, 5.0 + AOD conversion, total budget ~$1200: With the money saved from modding the 2.3 and associated bits, the additional cost to do the v8 swap won't hurt the budget terribly, but it will take me out of the under $1008.50 category. And if I don't do this swap this year, I'm definitely doing it for next year.

Option 3, 5.0 turbo (single or twins), total budget $1800: same as above, but with a turbo or two. This is the ultimate goal for the car, even beyond competing in the Challenge. I've priced stuff and it's totally doable under budget. My concern here is time constraints for both build and testing/refining to make sure it's reliable. I'm also kinda concerned about being that first-time-Challenge guy that shows up in a car that's capable of competing at a level far above his own abilities.

So, there it is... what say you? I really would appreciate any and all feedback, kind, or not so much.

Is the 2.3 in good shape? If so, for the first challenge, I'd suggest sticking with it. Have you done a 2.3 to 5.0 swap yet? If not, swaps have a tendency to take longer than you originally planned.

Last year was our first year and we brought a POS C4 Corvette. We got it running, gutted it, did some very minor performance mods and modest cosmetics. We came in at about $984 budget and ended up 20th out of 44. With a sick motor and transmission.

My suggestion is to start off with the low budget and plan on doing the upgrades next year. Just come down and get a feel for the the first year. You will have a ball.

I've sent you a PM with my phone number. Give a call and I'll share some thoughts with you on your first event.

Thanks guys!

I'd also save the money on disc brake conversion. On an autocross or drag event you don't really get any gains from drum to disc. Discs mainly help with fade and shedding water. Water won't be an issue for you, and I can't see your brakes fading from even hot-lapping on an auto-X course.
Drum brakes actually have more stopping power (unless you're upping the size of the disc over what was available stock. With a drum, 100% of the friction surface is X" away from the axle center-line, giving the braking system maximum leverage. With a disc setup, only the very farthest edge is X" away, the inner edge can be 1/2 that distance. Swept area is pretty close when comparing drum vs. disc setups of the same diameter.
The advantage to discs is the availability of performance pads. Will you have the tires to take advantage of performance pads?
That being said, I'd curious to know what everyone here thinks of that crazy notion. I'm really speaking hypothetically, I've never done any testing.

Go for the simplest build. For $2016 we just wanted to attend. We stumbled upon a cheap Miata with a bad transmission a few months before hand. We scored a cheap trans on Craig's list and that got the car moving. The remaining "to do" list was very simple: springs, sway bar, bushings, brake pads, sub-frame connectors, tires, cleaning, cleaning, cleaning, and a little paint work. I'm thinking we had well over 100 hours into a very simple build. My entire point is that you want to show up, so keep it simple and show up. We had a lot of fun and won a couple of awards. That's a very good year at The Challenge.

P.S.
The drum brakes should be fine.
Spend your money on rims and tires.

In reply to spin_out:

You just want me to bring a turbo Lima project too.

I did the '03 or '04 challenge, and am hoping to be there this year as well. It's fun just to be there. I'll never be a top contender in the standings, but I have as much fun an anyone there.

Dont be me.

Just get the damn thing on track under budget and show up. Dont try to build a top 10 on the first rodeo.

As a former XR4TI Challenge competitor I will suggest these things:

1: Make it as clean and as nice as possible

2: Pick up some R compound tires

3: Get to every Autocross in your area between now and October

4: Bring it stock"ish" and just get it there

Seriously.

Heres one more vote for the 2.3. Keep it simple and try to get in an autox or 2 before the event to scope the weak points.

Getting your feet wet for the first event is the best bet. Seriously. I have joined team spectator just so I don't have to thrash all weekend and fix something that broke. Doesn't mean I can't hop in and help if someone needs a hand, it just means my weekend is less stressful.

Thanks for all the sage feedback. Strangely, in this rare instance, I think the consensus is the right answer. Someone make a note of the date and time. Though, it does seem odd that the forum didn't encourage me to embrace the option most likely to lead to spectacular failure. Or am I just underestimating the failure potential of a near 30 year old turbo 2.3 Lima?

6bt swap. Because.

If you need specific Merkur parts that are small enough to ship let me know, I have a pretty good collection of spares.

The Lima is tough, if it runs well and has oil pressure I think it should survive the challenge as long as you don't do anything stupid. The one in the rally car was making less oil pressure than boost for some of Black River Stages last year, along with coolant temps as high as 240F, and apart from a slightly noisy top end seems to be no worse for it.

darkbuddha wrote: Thanks for all the sage feedback. Strangely, in this rare instance, I think the consensus is the right answer. Someone make a note of the date and time. Though, it does seem odd that the forum didn't encourage me to embrace the option most likely to lead to spectacular failure. Or am I just underestimating the failure potential of a near 30 year old turbo 2.3 Lima?

Nah! the 2.3 should fail spectacularly when you get sick of watching the Miata's get faster and faster with each run and turn the boost controller dial to 11.

Seriously, my advice to the first timer. Bring something that will make it through the weekend without breaking. Unless you've got a team of engineering and automotive enthusiast hiding somewhere. It's highly unlikely you'll place in the top 5. Get a year under your belt. it's an exhausting weekend if stuff breaks, an even more exhausting 6 months to give it a serious go at the top 3 even with a team. (renown livery turbo miata anyone)especially if you have an other half to keep happy in the mean time. And this is from someone who's bench raced engineering the most spectacular failure with some friends who teach stagecraft and special effects to college students.

That said... When you're ready to part with the turbo manifold and such from the 2.3 let me know. I might have a line on a 4 cylinder ranger that could use a kick in the pants.

In reply to Spinout007:

Do you want a E36 M3ty XSpower turbo header instead? You'll need to come up with a solution for bolting it on, but I have one I'm not using since I refuse to use something that hard to install/remove. Also have a cracked E6 manifold if you want to try to weld that up instead.

darkbuddha wrote: In reply to spin_out: You just want me to bring a turbo Lima project too.

Stop reading my mind.... it freaks me out.

I tried building the big idea for almost 10 years before i ended up with something simple(compared to the things i was doing) and actually made it. That thing was so simple enough it just needed the engine replaced with the same type, exhaust, fuel system, and everything going over. I drove it off the trailer. I never bring stuff home that drives off the trailer. The easy button did well, until replacement engine cracked head.

I have the all out insane project started but the easy button is the backup plan. Then for next year we have the super all out insanely over the top project. But the easy button car is fun, fast, and i can even street drive it.

I think you have a consensus...keep it simple your first time.

Get it finished early enough to sort it out. Unlike me who was thrashing to get running the night before I left for the 14 hour tow to Gainesville.

One thing I did that motivated me was to go ahead and send in my entry fee early when registration opened. It was a constant reminder that I was going no matter what!

K.I.S.S.

1st year- the simpler the better.

Therefore:

2017- Option 1

2028- Option 2

2019- Option 3.

In reply to darkbuddha:

You're getting good advice here.

I'll write some more for the benefit of others who may be reading this too.
The one word advice that I give to people "thinking about The Challenge" is GO.

Years ago, Aussie Steve convinced me to come with him to The Challenge as crew. I had always wanted to go and had followed from the $1500 days of 1999. I think it was 2011 that I first attended. I went a crew for a couple of years and then fielded my own car for the first time in 2014. A couple years of observing/crewing and then I put up an 11th and People Choice then 10th and Spirit of The Event. This past year was 5th from the bottom with minivan and mechanical issues but no less fun as I also had a hand in the PLB.

If you are considering, make sure you are aware of The Parking Lot Build (PLB) This is the genius of Jeremy Randolph (who also happened to be at the inaugural year of The Challenge.) The PLB is an open invitation to any and all who would like to have a hand in a Challenge car with less commitment. Think of it as an Arrive and Drive. Well, no assurance that you will be the driver so maybe a better phrase would be "Arrive and Assemble." Sort of a Junkyard Wars where the war is just to complete and compete. To say more about the driving, the year of the Lincoln Mark 8 PLB resulted no less than 15 different people taking that car down the drag stip so seat time is highly likely if it stays reliable like the Lincoln did!

Last years Trans Am Cart PLB finished 6th overall!

This photo is just a portion of the people who had a hand in the PLB. Easily, the number of people helping was double.

I'm not a challenge veteran, this will be my first one in attendance.

Now that that's out of the way, one piece of advice lots of people have me that hasn't come up yet, is pick one of the 3 disciplines of the challenge to excel at and focus on it. Autocross, drag, or concourse, and just not "ignore" the rest but don't worry about it as much.

Take me, I have a heavy, slow car that can't turn. So my focus is all concourse, if I can get general maintenance out of the way.

People might not push you towards a spectacular failure build,but that's because some people are going for the trophy in that field.

In reply to RevRico:

Your advice of "pick one to excel" is excellent advice.
In the first year that I brought my own car, my goals were for a mid pack autox, a mid pack drag but had every intention of "winning the party".

Even with engine failure (developed more than a tick but less than a knock) we still took 11th overall and People's Choice.

I hear that a dealership in Ohio is pushing 550hp from a Ford 2.3.

550 HP ought to be enough.