VW GTI or Golf R? Focus ST or Fiesta ST?
VW GTI or Golf R? Focus ST or Fiesta ST?
Yeah I have a DD already, it a nice newer reliable car but is totally boring and is the transportation appliance. I'm looking for something interesting to occasionally alternate with the DD, have fun with wrench on and take on road trips. Sporty but streetable and edging a little more towards comfort / grand tourer. Small enough to fit in my small garage. Accord Sport would probably be a good DD option, but maybe not interesting enough for a fun car. Budget would be $10k-ish, preferably closer to $5k but flexible. I'm divorced and bored. I want something "cool" that doesn't continually kick my ass in the garage with stupid crap, and that is tight but softened just enough that its not rattling my teeth out. Seems like every should-be 30minute to hour job on the Mini turns into a week. To be fair may not be the model so much as buying a corroded up car. I want to have fun with a car and not fight it constantly. There just doesn't seem to be a whole lot of alternatives/equivalents to a lot of the german cars that catch my interest.
In reply to nullcell:
Heh, heh... I was almost going to suggest some sort of classic car... but that is not likely to keep you out of the garage and in the driver's seat. Hell, half the reason I want a R53 again is so I'll have a fun car to drive when my classic British cars (I have a Triumph GT6 and a Spitfire) aren't running. Or it's raining (neither are particularly water-proof).
The R53 is definitely reaching the point where there are "good" cars and "marginal" cars. The latter can be found for a fraction of their original purchase price. The former tend to command prices a bit higher. Right now, I am figuring on around $10K for the car I want: '06 R53, factory JCW, no sunroof, little to no modifications. It won't be easy to find.
Nullcell,
What you really need is a one-way airplane ticket to San Antonio or Phoenix and a long weekend off.
Since in my world it has to have RWD to be fun, I second the FRS option.At least go drive one.
chaparral wrote: Nullcell, What you really need is a one-way airplane ticket to San Antonio or Phoenix and a long weekend off.
I have contemplated this many times. The land of no-rust.
NOHOME wrote: Since in my world it has to have RWD to be fun, I second the FRS option.At least go drive one.
FRS definitely caught my interest, as well as the Genesis Coupe. These are stretching the budget a bit but seem like great hobby cars.
nullcell wrote:NOHOME wrote: Since in my world it has to have RWD to be fun, I second the FRS option.At least go drive one.FRS definitely caught my interest, as well as the Genesis Coupe. These are stretching the budget a bit but seem like great hobby cars.
Been daily driving mine year round in the rust best since June 2012, so more than a hobby car.
$5k budget = C4 Corvette or Miata
$10-$15k budget = C5 Corvette or stretch for an FRS / Genesis coupe (get the 3.8)
Under $15k and you want to take a beating in the garage to satisfy the maintenance masochism German fetish = Porsche 928 / 944
Ian F wrote: In reply to nullcell: Heh, heh... I was almost going to suggest some sort of classic car... but that is not likely to keep you out of the garage and in the driver's seat. Hell, half the reason I want a R53 again is so I'll have a fun car to drive when my classic British cars (I have a Triumph GT6 and a Spitfire) aren't running. Or it's raining (neither are particularly water-proof). The R53 is definitely reaching the point where there are "good" cars and "marginal" cars. The latter can be found for a fraction of their original purchase price. The former tend to command prices a bit higher. Right now, I am figuring on around $10K for the car I want: '06 R53, factory JCW, no sunroof, little to no modifications. It won't be easy to find.
Yeah there's just not a ton of alternatives to an R53 that hit all the marks. I got my 04 for $2500 and have dumped another 4 or 5k in parts into it, half of that was wheels/tires exhaust manifold w/ sport cat and exhaust. 17% pulley, Coilovers, strut tower bearings, sway bar, starter, alternator, battery, evap valve, intercooler, end links, brakes, fuses, mirror covers, rain gutters...uggh lol. Most of this stuff should be simple to do. Coilovers and bearings wound up taking like over a month because of snapped bolts, drilling crap out, finally just replace both knuckles. Starter - have to drop the exhaust manifold. Alternator - have to put front end mostly in service mode although I didn't drain the radiator and all that. The car seems to have been specifically designed to maximize the labor time of routine repairs.
Dr Ribs Revere wrote: $5k budget = C4 Corvette or Miata $10-$15k budget = C5 Corvette or stretch for an FRS / Genesis coupe (get the 3.8) Under $15k and you want to take a beating in the garage to satisfy the maintenance masochism German fetish = Porsche 928 / 944
I have thought a lot about a C5. How hard are these to work on in reality? I have read that the packaging of the engine bay makes it a PITA, but relative to what?
Seriously, pony cars are big enough to be comfortable and have room to work, while also having enough sporting intention to not embarrass themselves. Plus, they have huge aftermarkets full of options to make it your own, or improve any areas that you find lacking. They make great noises too.
STM317 wrote: Seriously, pony cars are big enough to be comfortable and have room to work, while also having enough sporting intention to not embarrass themselves. Plus, they have huge aftermarkets full of options to make it your own, or improve any areas that you find lacking. They make great noises too.
Yep, sub $10k will get you a nice Mustang GT. G35/37, Genesis Coupe, C4/C5 would also be great choices.
Maintenance and modification seem to be the biggest pain points. Right?
This won't be a popular response but... have you considered buying the newest fun toy and avoid doing modifications and has minimal maintenance needs that fits your budget?
If so your might really just want something around $15k with a warranty (carmax?) that really puts you into:
128i Genesis coupe, FRS, and maybe a Fiesta ST.
Also since you already have a daily driver: Polaris Slingshot or a Motorcycle.
Just make sure you can afford the insurance.
I think you need to purge the DD and the R53 if you want a sporting yet soft GT car that is reliable. What you're describing as your desire is just a more sporting daily and to ditch the mini, which is fine. Doing so would also allow you to the expand your budget and reduce registration and insurance expenses.
I am living this same thoughts you had. First, I tried doing a jack of all trades car, a Focus ST. Lots to like about it, but a few things I didn't like. Got rid of it and went back to an appliance, because of how much I drive. Was just searching for a toy to play with...and I have the added challenge of not being skilled enough to do a ton of my own work (or have the time anyway). Looked at most of the cars on this list...128i, Mustang, G35, Genesis Coupe, etc... Would enjoy a motorcycle I'm sure, but am scared to death of them. Wound up with an NC Miata simply because it was a deal I couldn't pass up and I love the Miata. If a jack of all trades car will fit into your lifestyle, maybe that would be the way to go.
04-06 GTO? LS engine, sorta spacious, comfy cabin, decent handling...
In reply to nullcell:
The clutch and flywheel are extremely difficult and time consuming. Everything else is Miata-easy. Engine-bay packaging is substantially improved by the tiny little engine.
nullcell wrote:chaparral wrote: Nullcell, What you really need is a one-way airplane ticket to San Antonio or Phoenix and a long weekend off.I have contemplated this many times. The land of no-rust.
If it costs you $500 extra to buy this way, you'll be ahead the first time an after-work repair doesn't turn into a day-off repair.
Given the desire for 2+2, I find myself thinking that a 3.8 Genesis Coupe or G37 coupe are the most attractive options here. The 996 is a 2+2 (and ive had 4 people in mine!) but i think it is a poor fit if you don't want to be challenged by the mechanicals.
I don't think C5s are terrible to work on but it really depends on your tools and space. I did a rear main seal on one in my friend's carport. Keeping in mind that the 'transmission' per se is about 7 feet long and requires taking out the rear suspension, it SOUNDS serious by hobbyist standards. However, i found it was not terribly hard given the tools and experience i had, and its the kind of thing you SHOULD only have to do once. I also put headers on a 3.8 Genesis and that wasn't as easy as you might think, but it's something a hobbyist with less tools and more experience is more likely to do. So it really depends on where you're at on tools/experience. In general if you get a fairly new car (3.8 Gen, G37, NOT c5!) and leave it stock, you won't HAVE to do much of anything!
I dunno, this sounds like an NC with suspension mods and done, unless a back seat is needed for kids on occasion. The NC is bigger than my NB, and feels more "GT" than "sportscar" (to me).
I suspect the sporting intentions and nice(er) ride can be easily accomodated by Mr. Tanner and his merry band of parts. There's a couple of local-ish NC autocrossers that scream, so you can certainly up the game at any point.
I'd also second a southwest trip for a car. Phoenix is pretty big, and you can expand to Tucson for an hour and a half drive. No rust is a blessed thing.
I'm getting conflicting reports here. You say GT car, then have Miata as an option. In my mind those are on completely different ends of the car spectrum. GT cars historically are 2+2, with a decent trunk for your weekend road trip through the Alps, lots of leather a medium of luxuries, on the heavy side but still can corner good.
A Miata is a lightweight purebread sports car, no frills, and no luxuries.
If I were to recommend a GT car in the 5-6K area. I'd say a Lexus SC300 manual would be a great start. Hard to find with the manual, but bulletproof reliable. A G35 would be on my short list also, though getting one in this price range might be a little hard to do.
If your looking for a sportscar get the Miata.
nullcell wrote: I want something "cool" that doesn't continually kick my ass in the garage with stupid crap, and that is tight but softened just enough that its not rattling my teeth out.
+1 fly and drive or roadtrip to bring home something without rust. Wrenching on a clean car will change your world.
One more car suggestion: A BMW E36 isn't challenging to DIY most things. I've had two of them. My car skill level is pretty basic but I handled suspension work, wheel bearings, and a driveshaft replacement in my driveway no problem. There is also an incredible amount of how-to information and aftermarket available on the internet which is a great help. They are older cars but $5k should buy a really nice one. They are great to drive and seems like it would be perfect for what you want.
BlueInGreen44 wrote:nullcell wrote: I want something "cool" that doesn't continually kick my ass in the garage with stupid crap, and that is tight but softened just enough that its not rattling my teeth out.+1 fly and drive or roadtrip to bring home something without rust. Wrenching on a clean car will change your world. One more car suggestion: A BMW E36 isn't challenging to DIY most things. I've had two of them. My car skill level is pretty basic but I handled suspension work, wheel bearings, and a driveshaft replacement in my driveway no problem. There is also an incredible amount of how-to information and aftermarket available on the internet which is a great help. They are older cars but $5k should buy a really nice one. They are great to drive and seems like it would be perfect for what you want.
Yeah I'd been thinking about an E36. I've had an e30, 135i, skipped the E36 generation. e30 wasn't bad to work on but getting a little long in the tooth so not sure if rust/corrosion free examples even exist. 135i I dumped because the combined "brain"/radio head unit had a mind of its own. There is something about the E36 M3 4 door I've always kinda liked.
This mini is like intentionally designed to torture the DIY'er. Just so many stupid designs on this thing that it has to be intentional to decrease maintainability/make it not-user-serviceable. My fear is going down the same road with another BMW product.
t25torx wrote: I'm getting conflicting reports here. You say GT car, then have Miata as an option. In my mind those are on completely different ends of the car spectrum. GT cars historically are 2+2, with a decent trunk for your weekend road trip through the Alps, lots of leather a medium of luxuries, on the heavy side but still can corner good. A Miata is a lightweight purebread sports car, no frills, and no luxuries. If I were to recommend a GT car in the 5-6K area. I'd say a Lexus SC300 manual would be a great start. Hard to find with the manual, but bulletproof reliable. A G35 would be on my short list also, though getting one in this price range might be a little hard to do. If your looking for a sportscar get the Miata.
Yes. I know I am conflicting/contradicting myself. Because I have fantasies of a GT car and the alps and all that (or at least taking weekend escape trips in the US hills), but then also have this fantasy in my head that a Miata is a stress free no hassle pleasure to work on based on all the decades of people raving about them that I can play with and mod. In reality though my reason for a 2+2 is because my kid loves the Mini, mostly because its dad's and he wants to go out in dad's car and I think he likes the visibility out the windows and stuff, and he's not really big enough to be sitting up front yet. So if I go the Miata or C5 route I feel I tick off the no-dumb-designs box but then I'm excluding my son at least for a little while so....uggh.
If my kid didn't love the Mini I would have left it in a lake somewhere or on the side of the road with the title on the front seat a long time ago.
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