Cheap Solstice LS swaps

NickD wrote:

singleslammer wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: Yeah, that was a huge sticking point in the media when these came out. The weight difference with the NC is something like 500 lbs. Even with the extra power options, it still wasn't really comparing apples to apples.

The miserable trunk space was another huge complaint. Obviously on cars like this, there's never going to be a ton of trunk space, but the Solstice/Sky with the top down was pitiful

This was my chief complaint. I fit in them wonderfully. They're beautiful. You can't even fit an overnight bag in the trunk with the top down. Hell, I'm not sure I could fit my laptop in there. Literally the bare minimum--be able to get me from home to the train station for work--and it can't even do that. A MR-S can do that. How could they miss it?

Would buying a GXP and cranking the boost get you to where you want to be? Seems like the easier, cheaper option.

The distance between a V8 and a tuned turbo I4 has shrunk considerably. The only people doing V8 swaps are:

1 - those that have to have that V8 rumble and would take it even over a higher output 4 cylinder

2 - those that want really high power.

The LNF engine is quite capable of 400 bhp without going inside it, and 500 bhp with a bit of parts changing. Who really needs more than that (or is competent to drive with more than that)?

We figure that a properly done LS swap handed over to a shop will cost you between $20-30K. The resulting car isn't worth that much, normally. I suppose if you can do it yourself, it would be better, but you have to remember that the 400 bhp with the stock I4 only costs maybe $2500. And the LS7 is a $14K price tag and an LS3 is 'only'about $8K not including all the other parts needed.

PS - my car puts out 375 bhp and cost less than $2K to do that, and it gets 30 mph on the highway and also gets into the 12s in a 1/4.

Oh, and as a comparison... the miata. I could fit a dreadnaught in a hard case in my NB trunk. Or my hockey bag, and I'm not small. I once fit two golf bags. It had space if you packed efficiently. The Solstice did not.

wspohn wrote: PS - my car puts out 375 bhp and cost less than $2K to do that, and it gets 30 mph on the highway and also gets into the 12s in a 1/4.

How did you do that?

In reply to tuna55:

Dead easy. Swapped in a stock turbo that had been fitted with a larger impeller and retuned it. I also did a few other things like going to a larger intercooler, but that doesn't add power, just defers the heat soak when you start to lose power.

They guys that swap a different turbo are getting easy 400+ on stock bottom ends and nearer 500 with some uprated pistons/rods and some additional fueling provisions. And like all turbo engines, you only pay the fuel penalty when you have your foot in it.

Take a turbo I4 and a V8 of similar power levels, and you have two VERY different beasts. They are not the same even if the peak number is the same.

mtn wrote:

NickD wrote: The miserable trunk space was another huge complaint. Obviously on cars like this, there's never going to be a ton of trunk space, but the Solstice/Sky with the top down was pitiful

This was my chief complaint. I fit in them wonderfully. They're *beautiful*. You can't even fit an overnight bag in the trunk with the top down. Hell, I'm not sure I could fit my laptop in there. Literally the bare minimum--be able to get me from home to the train station for work--and it can't even do that. A MR-S can do that. How could they miss it?

Yeah, but with the top up, just look at how much not-at-all-awkwardly-shaped space is in there!

LOL!

I just saw a fifth gear vid of Vicki in a Brekland Beira. It's a UK special based on Opel's Sky/Solstice. Nose looks C6ey. LS2 powered.

Driven5 wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: With a cramped interior and a sub-200 pound pre-swap weight difference (GXP vs C6 Z51), I just don't see either of those being being overly advantageous for a street car.

Huh. From what I had read the Solstice was about 2800 in base form and the C6 was about 3300. Still, not a massive difference. I had hoped it would be a easy swap since it's all GM, but I guess not. C5's and C6's are cool, but are too large for my taste. I'd like to have some V8 rumble again in my life but don't have 50 large to drop on a ND V8. I was hoping for a low buck alternative to a FFR Cobra. I've always been partial to the looks of the Solstice since I first saw the original concepts. Oh well. Thanks for the info.

Driven5 wrote:

mtn wrote:

NickD wrote: The miserable trunk space was another huge complaint. Obviously on cars like this, there's never going to be a ton of trunk space, but the Solstice/Sky with the top down was pitiful

This was my chief complaint. I fit in them wonderfully. They're *beautiful*. You can't even fit an overnight bag in the trunk with the top down. Hell, I'm not sure I could fit my laptop in there. Literally the bare minimum--be able to get me from home to the train station for work--and it can't even do that. A MR-S can do that. How could they miss it?

Yeah, but with the top up, just look at how much not-at-all-awkwardly-shaped space is in there! LOL!

Wow, I'd heard the trunk wasn't big but I figured that was just the usual bellyaching for anything that's smaller than a Taurus. That's spectacular!

In reply to Keith Tanner:

I've heard the reason was that GM basically gave the car designers a very shortened timetable and budget to put it together after a positive concept showing. There's a number of other things that are weird about the car, not just the fuel tank intruding into the trunk.

The trunk space is a little better when the top is all the way up, but not much better than that picture. Putting down the top is way more difficult than it should be as well.

Would still love a Solstice.

mblommel wrote:

Driven5 wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: With a cramped interior and a sub-200 pound pre-swap weight difference (GXP vs C6 Z51), I just don't see either of those being being overly advantageous for a street car.

Huh. From what I had read the Solstice was about 2800 in base form and the C6 was about 3300. Still, not a massive difference. I had hoped it would be a easy swap since it's all GM, but I guess not. C5's and C6's are cool, but are too large for my taste. I'd like to have some V8 rumble again in my life but don't have 50 large to drop on a ND V8. I was hoping for a low buck alternative to a FFR Cobra. I've always been partial to the looks of the Solstice since I first saw the original concepts. Oh well. Thanks for the info.

I'm on your team dude.

Keith Tanner wrote: Wow, I'd heard the trunk wasn't big but I figured that was just the usual bellyaching for anything that's smaller than a Taurus. That's spectacular!

They wanted to make sure if you wanted lots of trunk space, you'd spend the extra money for a Firebird.

Werks Performance in Plainfield, Illinois has done several V-8/Solstice swaps and I believe have parts and maybe a kit. My experience with them on a different project was excellent.

TGMF wrote:

Driven5 wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: With an cramped interior and a sub-200 pound pre-swap weight difference (GXP vs C6 Z51), I just don't see either of those being being overly advantageous for a street car.

yep. Now add in the heavier engine,cooling system, trans, diff, wheels, tires and brakes and its a wash....thus my conclusion.

With that attitude no one would ever build a car. A car isn't always a way to get from point A to point B. Sometimes, it IS the point.

mblommel wrote:

Driven5 wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: With a cramped interior and a sub-200 pound pre-swap weight difference (GXP vs C6 Z51), I just don't see either of those being being overly advantageous for a street car.

Huh. From what I had read the Solstice was about 2800 in base form and the C6 was about 3300.

According to GM, that's about 100 off on each, low on the Solstice and high on the Vette. The 2009 brochure lists 2933 for a base Solstice, which is an which is largely meaningless if it's only in this conversation as a swap candidate, and 2990 for the GXP as a more relevant point of comparison. The Chevy brochure lists the Corvette Coupe as 3208, and 3221 if you want to keep the comparison to full on convertibles. The dry-sump models are required to start getting into the 3300 pound range. Apparently the weight I used to get a just under 200 pound difference was for an automatic Solstice GXP though, so it's actually a little over 200 pounds.

That being said, a car doesn't actually have to make any sense on paper if it's just what you really want on an emotional level.

Doesn't the Solstice use the same Getrag diff as the first-gen CTS-V? It was notoriously weak in the V. Would it be OK at the same power level in a car 800-1000 pounds lighter?

In reply to Keith Tanner:

Keith Tanner MegaDork Feb. 10, 2017 2:41 p.m. Take a turbo I4 and a V8 of similar power levels, and you have two VERY different beasts. They are not the same even if the peak number is the same.

True, although the turbo brings in big torque much sooner than a conventionally tuned engine will and in that sense apes a larger NA engine.

The stock LNF was artificially limited on torque production down low to prevent driveline warranty claims. It had peak torque around 2000 rpm and was flat after that (the tuning cut off the cap of the hump).

When you remove the tuning limitations, the torque peak is typically closer to 3000-3500 at around 500 bhp/500 Tq (one actual chassis dyno shows 420 whp and 422 wtq, so a 12% drive train loss equates to close to the 500 figures).

http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f93/500-hp-solstice-build-complete-69273/

Always thought it was too bad GM didn't use the LNF configuration to stick two banks onto common crankcase for a 600 bhp V8 (or up to 1,000 tuned with a larger turbo). Too much invested in the excellent LS series V8s I expect, and no good reason to look for more.

I'll just leave this here...

We had the gxp vert and traded it in on a new gxp coupe. A lot more storage room in the coupe. We got the GMPP tune and that really woke it up, but other than that ours is stock.

It's a real shame the coupe didn't get a meaningful production run. They're a great looking car.

Keith Tanner wrote: It's a real shame the coupe didn't get a meaningful production run. They're a great looking car.

The coupe was a very strange purchase because we ordered it, then GM killed Pontiac, then the dealer couldn't tell us if we were actually going to get the car or not and we were in limbo for awhile. Finally we were told it was on a truck and would be in soon. I've never had a new vehicle purchase as crazy as that one, but in the end they delivered.

Darren Macnamara used to campaign a one-off turbo LS powered Saturn Sky coupe in Formula Drift. Looked amazing, pity there wasn't a Sky coupe.

Sadly it got absolutely destroyed at Long Beach