ProDarwin wrote: Diesel is about 118% the price of gas here. The Diesel Cruze gets about 118% the mileage of the ECO. Meaning, it would never pay for itself.
As in Regular is $3.25 and diesel is $7.09????
ProDarwin wrote: Diesel is about 118% the price of gas here. The Diesel Cruze gets about 118% the mileage of the ECO. Meaning, it would never pay for itself.
As in Regular is $3.25 and diesel is $7.09????
Flight Service wrote:ProDarwin wrote: Diesel is about 118% the price of gas here. The Diesel Cruze gets about 118% the mileage of the ECO. Meaning, it would never pay for itself.As in Regular is $3.25 and diesel is $7.09????
118%, not 118% more.
Gas is ~$3.40 Diesel is ~$4.00
4/3.4= 1.176
In reply to ProDarwin:
Scared the crap out of me there.
Read that wrong wew
I have to say as far as GM hate goes, the VAG stories here and elsewhere online have been very effective at scaring me away from ever owning or recommending a VW. Just the reliability and cost of ownership numbers alone make it difficult for me to get excited about any Volkswagen product.
So the "hate" is not solely reserved for domestic makes, deservedly or not. While the auto mags drool over the GTI and TDi offerings, I just can't get into it.
My small car dollars would go domestic right now. Fiesta or Focus ST. If I want economy, a Volt.
In reply to bastomatic:
I don't think I would own a VW gas, but the stories about the TDi in a negative light seem to be few and far between.
Chevy Cruze diesel is actually a Fiat
...and Fiat build a strong diesel. They have been re-branded as Cummins (all those Dodge trucks) up until about 5 years ago when they sold Cummins the plans and molds. Cummins 4BT and 6BT are Fiat Nef 40/45 and Nef 60/65 engines.
So the reliability should be there for the Cruze. This will be fun to watch the sales numbers come in.
Knurled wrote:crankwalk wrote: Uh no I'm not saying that. I got 51 MPG on the drive home from the dealer in my VW with 13 miles on it. It has better gearing and better final drive so it turned better numbers. New to new. Apples to apples. I've driven both. Have you?So, just to recap, you're getting your fuel economy numbers from the dash gauge, not actually tracking how many gallons you put in vs. miles driven?
Good Lord, no stop with the recaps! I have a fuelly account and I have tracked MANUALLY every gallon burned in my car since new. My display is within 1.5% of accurate and ASSUMING the Cruze was pretty accurate too then the Jetta still beats it. Also the other people the OWN diesel Cruzes are not coming up with the same numbers a manual TDI can produce.
I don't see why somebody wouldn't understand the appeal of the VW over the Cruze. Again, lower entry price on the Jetta and 3 pedals! Fuel economy excluded assuming they are a wash. Why pay MORE for an automatic penalty box Cruze?
I wanted the Cruze to succeed and have considered buying one but they releaseed it years too late and no manual option keeps me away.
Anyway I'm done here as apparently it comes of as me being overly biased against GM products, though I have owned very many. Overly sensitive GM people on here?
Look here to prove it here are some Chevrolets I owned! LOL Jeez:
Flight Service wrote: Chevy Cruze diesel is actually a Fiat ...and Fiat build a strong diesel. They have been re-branded as Cummins (all those Dodge trucks) up until about 5 years ago when they sold Cummins the plans and molds. Cummins 4BT and 6BT are Fiat Nef 40/45 and Nef 60/65 engines. So the reliability should be there for the Cruze. This will be fun to watch the sales numbers come in.
Wut? Cummins = fiat. Wow that commenter is a moron.
In reply to Driven5:
I don't buy into a lot of that type of stuff (there is a reason I DD cars near the bottom of the depreciation curve), but look at it from the average consumer's perspective:
The car is an appliance. They are going to be willing to buy into extra/expensive features that offer a benefit. With prices the way they are, the only benefit the diesel offers over the ECO is longer distance between fillups. (also slower 0-60, no manual option, etc.)
If I told you refridgerator A was a "green" model and it costs $500 more than refridgerator B, but isn't any cheaper to operate... are you going to buy? Maybe. Will the average consumer? Hell no.
Further off topic: Actually, there is a distinct trend among conservatives that they will avoid something marketed as green, even if it saves them money : http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/05/when-it-comes-to-the-environment-conservatives-dont-like-conserving/
Dammit. Typed that up, and the post I was responding to is gone. Should've quoted 
One of the guys I work with has a TDi Jetta wagon with a stick. Anytime I happen to work OT on his shift, he lets me drive it to diagnose whatever malady of the week it has. While it hasn't ever been the engine or trans., it's far from a reliable car...
racerfink wrote: One of the guys I work with has a TDi Jetta wagon with a stick. Anytime I happen to work OT on his shift, he lets me drive it to diagnose whatever malady of the week it has. While it hasn't ever been the engine or trans., it's far from a reliable car...
Who are you talking to and who said the VW was more or less reliable than a BRAND NEW Cruze that has no track record?
There are many VW tdi's with 300- 400k + miles on them and hopefully the Cruze can pull that off too.
All I'm saying is, let's say both cars have their respective problems and get the same fuel economy (which is not what I observed), I would want to pay less for the Jetta and get a manual transmission. That doesn't equate to me hoping GM fails or bashing all of the products (like your passive aggressive VW poke in the last post).
OK doing some more research.
The Diesel comes in with the 2LT package as far as features and options (according to GM's Cruz site)
So that puts the diesel as a $2,405 option. MSRP $25,710.
so to figure out you actual savings I converted everything to miles per $. (fuel rates calculated from national averages.)
Gas: (38 miles/gallon)/($3.58/gallon)=10.615 miles/$ Diesel: (46 miles/gallon)/($3.84/gallon)=11.979 miles/$
So for you $1 you go 1.364 miles further for your buck.
So let's look at this a different way. Gallons per 100 miles. Take the inverse of both MPGs and get:
Gas: 2.63 gallons/100 miles
Diesel: 2.17 gallons/100 miles
so if you drive 60% on the highway and drive 13,500 per year, and fuel prices stay where they are. It will take 22 years and 9 months to get your money back or 307,100 miles
Fueled by Caffeine wrote:Flight Service wrote: Chevy Cruze diesel is actually a Fiat ...and Fiat build a strong diesel. They have been re-branded as Cummins (all those Dodge trucks) up until about 5 years ago when they sold Cummins the plans and molds. Cummins 4BT and 6BT are Fiat Nef 40/45 and Nef 60/65 engines. So the reliability should be there for the Cruze. This will be fun to watch the sales numbers come in.Wut? Cummins = fiat. Wow that commenter is a moron.
The Cummins 4BT and 6BT is a Fiat till a few years ago. I should know I am the distributor for them. 
Flight Service wrote:
The Cummins 4BT and 6BT is a Fiat till a few years ago. I should know I am the distributor for them.
What proof do you have? I'd like to know as I was a cummins design and performance engine for about four years.
Not trying to start a war, I know we sold to IVECO but have no knowledge of anything fiat. I was an ISX, ISM, and up guy. Never played with the small engines. .
In reply to crankwalk: I'm talking of my actual, real-world experience. You know... Just like you did with your fuel mileage experience.
racerfink wrote: In reply to crankwalk: I'm talking of my actual, real-world experience. You know... Just like you did with your fuel mileage experience.
Right, but unlike my post, your story had nothing to do with a Chevy Cruze only about how older VW's have parts break on them. That doesn't say anything for or against a new Chevy Cruze so I don't see how it's relevent.
You stated stated "it beat the Jetta in every category but one." I disagree. I think the VW beats it for the other reasons I've already listed price, manual trans. and like you said a wagon availability as well. That's all I don't think its a bad car but drive both new cars and weigh it yourself.
Flight Service wrote: Chevy Cruze diesel is actually a Fiat ...and Fiat build a strong diesel. They have been re-branded as Cummins (all those Dodge trucks) up until about 5 years ago when they sold Cummins the plans and molds. Cummins 4BT and 6BT are Fiat Nef 40/45 and Nef 60/65 engines. So the reliability should be there for the Cruze. This will be fun to watch the sales numbers come in.
kinda funny to talk about good reliability and to use Fiat as the example 
Flight Service wrote: Chevy Cruze diesel is actually a Fiat ...and Fiat build a strong diesel. They have been re-branded as Cummins (all those Dodge trucks) up until about 5 years ago when they sold Cummins the plans and molds. Cummins 4BT and 6BT are Fiat Nef 40/45 and Nef 60/65 engines. So the reliability should be there for the Cruze. This will be fun to watch the sales numbers come in.
Proof? Or is this another variation of the "Isuzu makes Duramax diesels" trope we always hear.
Maybe you need reading comprehension. "Seems" like you're missing something...
Fueled by Caffeine wrote:Flight Service wrote:The Cummins 4BT and 6BT is a Fiat till a few years ago. I should know I am the distributor for them.
Iveco was wholly owned by FIAT. (Fiat also owns Case New Holland). Now called Fiat Powertrain Technologies (FPT) soon to be Case New Holland (in the US). The 4BT and 6BT was designed by Fiat and sold to Cummins for use by Cummins as a Cummins, although the Cummins engines were assembled domestically at a domestic facility. About 5 years ago Fiat and Cummins split and FPT sold the mold and the drawings to Cummins for their BT series engines. Now the Nef and BT are developed separately but still have parts swap across the board. The big differences will come in during Tier 4i and 4f.
Go ask around at work they will verify. As I had a Cummins guy tell me about it before I went to the FPT distributor.
Hows the bigger stuff going for you? I know the QSK line is giving you guys fits in Marine.
wbjones wrote:Flight Service wrote: Chevy Cruze diesel is actually a Fiat ...and Fiat build a strong diesel. They have been re-branded as Cummins (all those Dodge trucks) up until about 5 years ago when they sold Cummins the plans and molds. Cummins 4BT and 6BT are Fiat Nef 40/45 and Nef 60/65 engines. So the reliability should be there for the Cruze. This will be fun to watch the sales numbers come in.kinda funny to talk about good reliability and to use Fiat as the example
I know, right?! shocks be too when we have them out there in marine applications with 30,000 hours on them.
DoctorBlade wrote:Flight Service wrote: Chevy Cruze diesel is actually a Fiat ...and Fiat build a strong diesel. They have been re-branded as Cummins (all those Dodge trucks) up until about 5 years ago when they sold Cummins the plans and molds. Cummins 4BT and 6BT are Fiat Nef 40/45 and Nef 60/65 engines. So the reliability should be there for the Cruze. This will be fun to watch the sales numbers come in.Proof? Or is this another variation of the "Isuzu makes Duramax diesels" trope we always hear.
Blade what kind of proof would you like, I am sure we can find similar service manuals and post sections out that verify the statement.
but when it comes to the Isuzu - duramax relationship
You know it's bad when on THIS BOARD you give inside information and you are asked for documents.
ProDarwin wrote: Dammit. Typed that up, and the post I was responding to is gone. Should've quoted
Sorry for the surprise deletion. After initially posting, I decided it really didn't really contribute to the topic of this particular thread in any meaningful way...At best it might have exchanged one pointless pissing match, for another.
Flight Service wrote:Fueled by Caffeine wrote:Iveco was wholly owned by FIAT. (Fiat also owns Case New Holland). Now called Fiat Powertrain Technologies (FPT) soon to be Case New Holland (in the US). The 4BT and 6BT was designed by Fiat and sold to Cummins for use by Cummins as a Cummins, although the Cummins engines were assembled domestically at a domestic facility. About 5 years ago Fiat and Cummins split and FPT sold the mold and the drawings to Cummins for their BT series engines. Now the Nef and BT are developed separately but still have parts swap across the board. The big differences will come in during Tier 4i and 4f. Go ask around at work they will verify. As I had a Cummins guy tell me about it before I went to the FPT distributor. Hows the bigger stuff going for you? I know the QSK line is giving you guys fits in Marine.Flight Service wrote:The Cummins 4BT and 6BT is a Fiat till a few years ago. I should know I am the distributor for them.
Cummins laid me off years ago. I now run an overhaul shop for jet engines. The qsk was a bitch of a motor, from what I remember.
I see the connection now. Case and cummins had a partnership around their CDC plant in rocky mount. Case and fiat worked on designing the motor before cummins was involved. Cummins bought the motors and plant from case.
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