China is taking the fun out of my hobby.

I don't go looking for cheap parts, but when I go to Napa or my local Lordco, I get to choose between cheap crap and slightly less cheap crap. My son's pickup with a 6.5 diesel needed a starter this summer. It was a cheap truck we dumped some money into including 2 new batteries, and the starter needed a rap on the solenoid every now and then so no problem. $500.00 for a new? geared AC Delco. It is no picnic changing the starter on the truck, but my kid got it done with a minimum of cursing. He is 20 and agrees that wrenching beats a truck payment.  So six months later we have had a cold snap and it is turning over slow. Voltage drop says the starter is hooped. He gets down there under the truck in the snow (shop is full of Fossil) and pulls it off. It took 200 amps to crank itself over out of the truck. Off to Lordco for another one. Goes to put the the new one on and the bolts jam in the holes. Pull it off again. Knock the bolts free with a hammer. He notes they do not thread in straight. Turns out the holes (about four inches deep) are cast in the aluminum housing and there is a casting ridge in the middle. It was then we see that along with the big-made in USA-tag, there is a very small one saying remanufactured in China.  Figures. So he cleans the holes up with a drill so the bolts spin nice and back into the snow for a two hour struggle. Finishes up, turns the key....click.... berkeleying rooster lollipop motherberkeleying piece of E36 M3 had a stuck solenoid. I crawled under and hammered the motherberkeleyer and it freed up. Now he is faced with doing this all over again in six months when this one fails again, unless the solenoid sticks again right away. 

Makes me want to co sign a car loan for him.

Edited for bad language. 

Stories like this make me feel less silly for taking an original starter out, soldering in new brushes, and putting it back. That doesn't help a stuck solenoid, though.

A former coworker bought a company Ford truck with the 300 inline 6.  Eventually he needed a solenoid and could never find one that would work for any length of time.  I sent him to NAPA to get an Echlin and it was no better.  

I've been fairly fortunate with my Panda Express build that most of the parts I've found for it were NOS FoMoCo or Mazda where applicable.

Another thing I noticed on the Chinesium starters is the case is insulated from the rest of the housing and it causes the starter to not ground.

Once we stop stepping over our own grandmother to save $.10...

I found out the hard way that O'Reilly will honor a lifetime replacement warranty, but only for 4 replacements after the original. After 5 failed slave cylinders in my E36 I bought OEM. 4x the cost and perfect ever since. 

This doesn't sound like China's fault to me. This is corporations sacrificing quality to maintain or increase profit at a given price point.

STM317 said:

This doesn't sound like China's fault to me. This is corporations sacrificing quality to maintain or increase profit at a given price point.

This.  Virtually every cell phone, TV, computer, etc. is made in China too.  Don't see them failing a month after purchase (yes, yes, there are exceptions, but in general...)

There's a reason that I've started to go with OEM as much as I can.  I can't stand doing a job twice unless its my berkeleyup.  Then I'm only mad at me.

I think its a game of research. For some cars/trucks the original manufacturer of said part isnt the OE but a company the OE will contract to build the parts. There was a great video from FCP Euro on this a few months ago showing i think it was a wiper transmission for a BMW. They had two that were made by the same manufacturer, one in an OE BMW box while the other was in a the part manufacturer box. Only difference between the two was the BMW stamp on one of them and the price being $200 cheaper for the non-stamped version.

If you can find out who made the OE starter for GM then buy that part through said parts store/online retailer from that manufacturer. 

STM317 said:

This doesn't sound like China's fault to me. This is corporations sacrificing quality to maintain or increase profit at a given price point.

Or more accurately, corporations shifting to offshore to remain competitive because if they don't China will just make it on their own and dump it here. They have no qualms about stealing designs and making copies of anything. Either play with them or try to win against them.

I love these threads. The horse left the barn decades ago, folks. There's lots of blame to go around:  workers, unions, environmentalists, politicians and yes, even the Evil Corporations.

ddavidv said:

STM317 said:

This doesn't sound like China's fault to me. This is corporations sacrificing quality to maintain or increase profit at a given price point.

Or more accurately, corporations shifting to offshore to remain competitive because if they don't China will just make it on their own and dump it here. They have no qualms about stealing designs and making copies of anything. Either play with them or try to win against them.

I love these threads. The horse left the barn decades ago, folks. There's lots of blame to go around:  workers, unions, environmentalists, politicians and yes, even the Evil Corporations.

The only reason the Chinese strategy of flooding the market with cheaper goods can work is that consumers demand cheaper goods. And the only reason consumers demand cheaper goods is because wages haven't kept up with inflation for most. And the only reason wages haven't kept up with inflation is outsourcing eliminating good paying jobs/corporations prioritizing shareholder return above all. And the only reason....And the only reason... and the only reason...

In reply to ddavidv :

Don't forget cheap consumers....  

STM317 said:

This doesn't sound like China's fault to me. This is corporations sacrificing quality to maintain or increase profit at a given price point.

Is there really a difference?  
 

I've said the MBA is what ruined manufacturing for years.  I worked for a guy in the auto industry who made his career off saving pennies a part by having them made in China.  In the end, the customer loses but all those pennies add up on paper.  

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

I'm just saying country of origin isn't the core issue here. Lower quality parts are the issue, and there are a number of reasons for that but they all pretty much come down to money. Money for people buying the parts and money for the companies making the parts.

STM317 said:

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

I'm just saying country of origin isn't the core issue here. Lower quality parts are the issue, and there are a number of reasons for that but they all pretty much come down to money. Money for people buying the parts and money for the companies making the parts.

It's true. It was Japan in the 60's and 70's. Who's it going to be next, India?

FWIW, Chinese made products are making one of my hobbies infinitely more enjoyable. I build speakers and other audio equipment. In the 80's and 90's when the better components were all made in Europe they were out of reach for me. Today they are not only affordable, if not downright cheap, but quality is excellent, and they are and much more widely available.

The drive to make short term results for the street and tying those results to executive bonuses.   
 

Now when do my rsu's vest?

STM317 said:

This doesn't sound like China's fault to me. This is corporations sacrificing quality to maintain or increase profit at a given price point.

Ultimately, this is consumers demonstrating repeatedly that they do not value quality over cost.

In reply to kevinatfms :

I ran into this when I needed to replace the intake manifold on our Merc R350.  Manifold with the star on it was something like $1100, exact same part minus the star was $600.

The starter went out on my 2004 Miata so I bought a rebuild one from O'Reilly's.   It wouldn't crank the engine. Got another one.  That one would not crank the engine either.   

Fortunately I had held onto the original starter instead of going for the core charge refund, it was the actual original starter.  I brought it to a rebuild shop for a rebuild.   The counter guy was amazed it was an original never rebuilt part from 2004.  Anyway they rebuilt it, I installed it, and everything worked perfectly..      I should have done that in the first place.

In reply to ProDarwin :

People talk about quality but in the end they buy on price.

Opti said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

People talk about quality but in the end they buy on price.

A problem is that it's hard to judge the quality on something like a rebuilt starter, especially when you're standing at the parts counter. And it's even harder when you're buying from the cheapest supplier Google can dredge up (or Rock Auto, which is often the same thing) and you don't have a counter person standing there to tell you that they see 10x the return rate on this part vs that part.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

On some things. Normally when I order something I have a pretty good idea if its a gamble or if its an install and forget it type thing.

This is similar to the toyota hatch latch thing from a few months ago. If the market it 300 dollars and I order something for 70, I can reasonably suspect it is not the same quality. Yes there are outliers but in general, if you care about quality a little common sense will take you a long way. There are still brands that are trusted, and a paint it black and put it back is always a gamble.

Keith Tanner said:

Opti said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

People talk about quality but in the end they buy on price.

A problem is that it's hard to judge the quality on something like a rebuilt starter, especially when you're standing at the parts counter. And it's even harder when you're buying from the cheapest supplier Google can dredge up (or Rock Auto, which is often the same thing) and you don't have a counter person standing there to tell you that they see 10x the return rate on this part vs that part.

This is the true issue. "You get what you pay for" but also everyone has been burned buying a more expensive thing that also turned out to be junk.

I want to buy the higher quality one, but I can't identify the quality until 6 months or more after purchase.

Tools are much the same way.

And finally, this whole issue is why brand recognition is such a powerful thing for companies who are trying for anything other than pure price competition.

I try to take starters and alternators to an electrical shop for rebuild. Having used to work in a machine shop that also had an electrical side it was shown to me just how bad most parts store "rebuilds" are. Were talking bare minimum components replaced and well below OE quality parts at that. 

After having 2 starters in 2 years in my diesel truck I took the first one that didn't last in to a rebuild shop. Bearings where very poor quality, brushes were unlikely replaced at time of "rebuild" and the solenoid was total garbage. It cost $80-100 more than another parts store one but it has lasted over 5 years now.