Chumpcar question...

I'm sorry, I'm too lazy to go through the whole Chumpcar rulebook about this... The Porsche 906 thread got me wondering, how does Chumpcar deal with homemade tube-frame Specials?

My immediate reaction is that they don't allow them, but I really don't know whether I have a factual basis for thinking that.

I feel like we wondered about entering a super late model and it was a no go.

From the Chump rules:

2. 2 .1. Ra c e e nt ry is lim i t ed t o mas s - p r o du c e d ( over 1, 0 00 u n i t s ) , f o u r - w h e el e d v e h i c les c e r t i f i e d f or US O r Ca n a d i a n s t r e e t a n d h i g h w ay u se a t th e t i m e o f t h e v e h i c le’s m a nu f ac t u r e .

OK wow, copy and pasting from their rules doesn't work. Anyway, they only allow "mass produced" vehicles, "certified for .. street and highway use." A homebuild wouldn't be allowed.

If they did allow it, they'd probably penalize you 500 laps or something like that.

Generally no, and for good reason in my opinion. A bespoke tubeframe racer gets tweaked after one shunt and you're back to square one, at best.

If you already have one and feel it is super safe, email Phil.McKinney@chumpcar.com and ask.

Otherwise, I'd start with a Miata, or BMW like all of the winning guys. :)

In reply to Tyler H:

Or, go buy a Plymouth Cricket, drop in a flattie, and absolutely DOMINATE LeMons.

volvoclearinghouse wrote: In reply to Tyler H: Or, go buy a Plymouth Cricket, drop in a flattie, and absolutely DOMINATE LeMons.

Wow, Plymouth Cricket. To quote Ben Kenobi, that's a name I have not heard in a long time: My grandparents' neighbors had one.

Tyler H wrote: Generally no, and for good reason in my opinion. A bespoke tubeframe racer gets tweaked after one shunt and you're back to square one, at best. If you already have one and feel it is super safe, email Phil.McKinney@chumpcar.com and ask. Otherwise, I'd start with a Miata, or BMW like all of the winning guys. :)

Much easier to fix a tube frame car than a tub.

racerfink wrote:

Tyler H wrote: Generally no, and for good reason in my opinion. A bespoke tubeframe racer gets tweaked after one shunt and you're back to square one, at best. If you already have one and feel it is super safe, email Phil.McKinney@chumpcar.com and ask. Otherwise, I'd start with a Miata, or BMW like all of the winning guys. :)

Much easier to fix a tube frame car than a tub.

Maybe. Easier and safer for janky fabricators (including myself) to retub a car.

In response to volvoclearinghouse:

I'm unclear of Lemons or Chump is the better playground right now. I left Lemons in 2010 over bullE36 M3 judging and eventually went back. Chump has been lost in the woods with an overcomplicated ruleset for the last few years, where Lemons has relaxed some.

I lack the Spirit of Lemons gene, as after an event in a rented seat in a Pacer, I realized that driving the slowest car on track is no fun. Then I campaigned an EG Civic in Chump, which was the Chump equivalent of the Pacer and equally unfun.

As you guys know, the trick is to build something fast that is ridiculous enough to get past judging.

I thought chump was on the way oit. The West coast series to be in now is Lucky Dog. And I think they have a class for everything.

bearmtnmartin wrote: I thought chump was on the way oit. The West coast series to be in now is Lucky Dog. And I think they have a class for everything.

Last two chump races I've done have had 80 and 127 cars. It's doing horribly

I'd simply e-mail them about the rules. They are pretty prompt at responding to questions like that.

Tyler H wrote: In response to volvoclearinghouse: I'm unclear of Lemons or Chump is the better playground right now. I left Lemons in 2010 over bullE36 M3 judging and eventually went back. Chump has been lost in the woods with an overcomplicated ruleset for the last few years, where Lemons has relaxed some. I lack the Spirit of Lemons gene, as after an event in a rented seat in a Pacer, I realized that driving the slowest car on track is no fun. Then I campaigned an EG Civic in Chump, which was the Chump equivalent of the Pacer and equally unfun. As you guys know, the trick is to build something fast that is ridiculous enough to get past judging.

If you left LeMons over BS inspections, then I could see how you might lack the "Spirit of LeMons gene". I've been doing LeMons since 2008, back when it started. From the beginning, it was always understood that judging was capricious, whimsical, and completely based on whether Jay or Phil had a particularly rough breakfast burrito at the Holiday Inn that day. Its their circus, and we just enjoy being a part of it.

We've also won (2) IoEs, and 5 or 6 other awards, only one of which was for a class win (Class C, as you may have guessed).

You are correct though- the key to having fun at LeMons is to find a car that tickles the judges' fancies AND is reasonably quick. We run a 1975 Ford LTD, which has always been Class C, mostly due to reliability issues- and the fact that it's a freaking malaise-era full size barge with a big block pushrod V8. But, when it's out there, it runs lap times on par with some Class B cars. And, that's fun.

I've driven some LeMons and Chump races in other peoples' cars, and while piloting a solid B-class car around quickly is enjoyable, it's still nothing like the E36 M3-eating grin one gets blowing the doors off a "real" race car in your Landau-mobile.

BTW, not sure whose Pacer you rented time in, but there was another AMC product- I believe a Gremlin- that was being campaigned for a bit out East that was ridiculously quick for what it was. I'm of the belief that one can make just about any car into a competent race car, it just takes more creativity than pushing the "E30iata" button.

Couple of points....

1. Chump is not getting a ton of entry's out in ca. It is killing it on the east coast and Midwest.

2. The rules for chump have been simplified, but are way more complex than lemons. This is so you know where you stand before showing up. It is simpler than scca, but more complicated than lemons.

3. The gremlin on the east coast was created by Dave morrow. It had a supercharged 3800 backed by a t5. I helped with the suspension on That car.

4. A couple of different civics have won races in 2016 and 2017 in chump... At big name tracks with lots of competition.

wvumtnbkr wrote: 3. The gremlin on the east coast was created by Dave morrow. It had a supercharged 3800 backed by a t5. I helped with the suspension on That car.

I love that car. I actually got a black flag once, racing it. I was coming up behind it hard on the front straight at CMP- me in the 460-powered Landau and the 3800-powered Gremlin in my sights. He was gaining on me in the turns, and I was pulling on him in the straights. As we came to the end of the straights I was waiting for my brake point and never saw a brake light appear on the Gremlin. So I waited a split second past my usual point and ended up skidding off the straight into the weeds.

I got flagged and came in immediately. Judge Steve was my prosecutor. I told him what had happened, and that I'd gotten distracted by the lack of the brake light on the Gremlin- he asked me, "So, you're blaming the Gremlin for your screw up?" I said, "no sir, it was my fault- I was distracted by the sheer awesomeness of the car." Steve grinned and let me off with a warning. I talked to Dave Morrow later and he said they've been flagged shortly thereafter for a dysfunctional brake light. I told him the story from my end and he laughed.

I have asked Chumpcar, AER, and WRL about bringing tube-frame Specials, and they all said no. At one point Chumpcar was trying to get a sprint race together for Semi's and tube framed cars, but no interest and sprint racing didn't work well together. My take on crap can cars LeMons= Slow, and ridiculously funnyChumpcar= medium, you have to find the fastest 500 point car possible Aka BMWAER= fast Not sure if I consider these Crapcan when you have a$100k car Porsches/BMWWRL= fast Not sure if I consider these Crapcan when you have a$100k car Porsches/BMW

WRL is not crapcan racing, but it certainly isn't $100k cars. I've run quite a few races in the GP1 class this year in a 2006 350Z, and we have quite a few 3rd place finishes against Boxsters, Miatas w/S2000 motors, and even a S2000 w/Odysey V6 motors.

Having said all that, the field usually has a good number of Lemons/Chump cars running.

To me WRL is really the new Improved Touring Class.

Since SCCA really just left that class to die, I've seen a lot of those cars showing up in WRL. If I were to do some budget racing that would be the series I would probably run. I've worked a couple of the races and the driving was pretty clean and event well run.

At the Daytona 14 hour race, thirty-eight cars started, and there wasn't one single incident of car-to-car contact. Our 350Z was hitting 150mph at start/finish. Some of the GP3/4 cars were probably 25-35mph less than that.

The key is, Joey Todd, the 'CEO' of WRL means what he says when he says no contact. If you touch another car and a corner worker or official sees it, you're gonna talk to somebody on pit road very soon. It also helps that WRL requires some sort of previous wheel-to-wheel experience. Can't tell you the number of times in Chump I've been scared to death passing a car running down the middle of the track (corners too) going 30 to 40 seconds a lap slower than I was. Especially when there's 90 cars still on track.

In reply to racerfink:

AER race

http://imgur.com/iOHAG7D