"Classic" tow vehicles

NGTD said:

Knurled. said:

Trying and not finding the image of a 504 Diesel flat-towing a 504 rally car.

They had about 20 feet of Flex-haust on the tow car to route the exhaust behind the rally car.

 

Was a black and white pic, probably from the 1970s.

 

I give you Randy Zimmer towing a Subaru Rally Car with a Legacy

That Legacy probably had more brakes at one front wheel than the Peugeot had at all four, and at least three times the horsepower.  (How much power could you expect an indirect, naturally aspirated 4 cylinder Diesel to make?)

I did that for a while because it was what I could afford and it did the job well.

Then I got tired of it breaking down all the time and having to work on "old car problems" so I thought why dont I modernize and I was hoping to increase the power, add gears or auto swap, needed cruise control and A/C etc etc etc... the list went on...

by that time I noticed that the list basically said, you want a newer truck and now I am much less exhausted after a towing. no ABS and mud tires on ice was sketchy at best sometimes.

downside is the new "bench seat" is a lie and the coolness factor has declined a bit and I do miss the 35 dollars for 10 years registration and about 200 dollars a year in insurance.  With the 2008 the registration jumped to 200 dollars A YEAR and about 1200 in insurance a year...

wspohn said:

Here is an MGC towing an MGA race car.....

We also had a guy with a Jaguar Mk 7 used as a tow car.

Some years ago I was at Hallett in Oklahoma, and saw Alf Gebhardt towing this car into the track behind his BMW 850.

I once had a pretty darn good 1975 F150 that i towed with only one time. It did ok but it wasn't enough better than my dad's 96 Dakota (i towed with at the time) to justify keeping it around only as a tow vehicle. I never had much else in the way of plans for it, so i got rid of it. In retrospect i probably should have kept it and got more imaginative, but oh well. 

Last year i towed to the Challenge with a 1994 Dodge B250 van. Had some mechanical issues along the way, which i dealt with relatively easily since i had tools with me. I like it ok as a tow vehicle. Really just needs a 4th gear so i can do that thing, what is it? Oh yeah, tow in overdrive. 

In general i think towing with old vehicles is a poor idea for most people, even the majority of DIY'er car enthusiasts. There is a type of person for whom i wouldn't second guess it. Those are generally the type of people that don't let anything stop them anyway, which can be both good and bad. Like, we admire their craziness and persistence from afar but it's sort of a 'nice place to visit, wouldn't wanna live there' kinda thing. I say 'we' loosely as i might be that type of person to a lot of people. I do really dig that Dodge box truck.

In reply to fidelity101 :

Truck registration in some states can be annoying for a vehicle you don't drive very much. My '95 Cummins was $153/yr in PA.  That was an annoying bill to pay every year and I think fees have gone up since I sold it, so it might be more now. This is where a van can sometimes be a get-around. My E-350 extended diesel conversion van is actually titled as a station wagon - meaning registration is $42/yr. This is despite the fact it weighs about the same as the truck did and can tow only a little less.

My 88 Silverado hits the sweet spot, new enough for overdrive and (primitive, I grant you) fuel injection, old enough for the "cool truck" factor, and the $7.50 registration. 

 (How much power could you expect an indirect, naturally aspirated 4 cylinder Diesel to make?)

About 50-60 Hp, so your estimate is close. More torque compared to HP though.

In reply to MotorsportsGordon :

That GMC is about 2 miles from my house, and been for sale for years. 

It is incredibly rough, but probably could easliy be driven on the highway again. Until the body fell off. 

I think the answer is old body on a newer chassis.

4 wheel, working ABS has become one of my bottom line requirements for towing.  You can plan around low power, but not having enough brakes in an emergency is deadly. Granted, this is partly because the trailers I'm dealing with are just light enough not to have their own brakes. Not towing cars these days.

I also second the arguments about tow vehicles needing to be dead reliable, comfortable, and easy to drive under load.  The sum of these is that a newer vehicle is usually better, as is one that CAN tow far more than you ARE towing.  It's a safety margin on your abilities as an alert driver. Tow vehicles aren't fun, they're the tools that make fun possible, and as such need to be transparent in use - you should never have to think about them. Also, that doesn't mean they can't be vintage or cool, it's just that its FAR cheaper to achieve transparent capability in newer, and/or boring packages.

So what do I tow my boat with? A badly neglected '97 Jeep with nonfunctional ABS. Look, if you know the rules, you know when you can bend them, right?

My own towing is currently done with a '78 D200.  Never at a loss for power with the 440, the brakes, CC and A/C work very well, and I love the vintage hydraulic over electric trailer brake controller. I have a 24' Haulmark race trailer that taught me how vital tight steering and suspension are when towing.

The engine and gearing choice leaves me at 10-11.5 MpG with or without an open trailer or empty, with the enclosed dropping me into single digits. My remedy for that is below...

To solve the MpG issue, i have two "solutions" brewing. 

The first one is closer mechanically- A '93 D350 that was converted to a "mega" cab when new.  The 12v and 5 speed will get me better mileage, especially when unladen (or even partially loaded), and the 50 gallon tank in the bed will increase range dramatically. 

However, the body needs help, and I have something a little nicer simmering on the back burner. Another D350. This one is a very nice '85 roller that will need most everything else. I have a donor for the 12v, automatic, and most of the wiring. 

It should be very nice if it gets done before I die. 

Now, with all that said, get a OBS crew Ford with the 7.3.  It will do most anything you want it to, it is comfortable, reliable, and has the look.  

It also is dirty cheap compared to anything Cummins powered.

In reply to Cooter :

So Cooter, do you race that kcar?

In reply to Floating Doc :

At this point, it mostly gets towed from one storage location to another .

Floating Doc said:

In reply to snailmont5oh :

My favorite fox body, behind my favorite body style of F series truck. Really nice, but being a big fan of full size wagons, that's going to be even better. The 400 in the wagon will have plenty of torque and the C6/nine inch drive train is indestructible. I'll be curious to see how you address the brakes. Some rear disks on that nine inch might be an option. 

I'm not overly concerned about the brakes. The trailer has four of them, so as long as everything works as designed, I think I'll be okay. 

I have a 1990 Ford E250 Coachman camper van. The seats are comfy, it has cruise control and A/C. The brakes are good (especially after replacing the sticky caliper and the leaky master cylinder). It has air shocks and a 4 speed overdrive.

The steering is about what one expects from a twin I-beam front end. It's OK but you sure wouldn't brag about it.

The one thing not mentioned about older vehicles that is not easy to get around is the wind noise. While initially that might not seem like a big deal but after 4 or 5 hours it starts wearing on you. I need to replace the wing window seals as they have started whistling.

I'd be on board with a new truck if they weren't 40-70K, I just find that insane given what I'm going to,use the vehicle for. 

I don't do long road trips in the van, I think the longest I've driven it is 2hrs. In 11 years of I have only put around 8000 miles on it. We paid 4K for the van, I had the tranny replaced and upgraded at a cost of 2K. I've also replaced the radiator, water pump and aforementioned brake parts. I'm in it for a shade over 7K. 

Now my 1974 F350 was used heavily ran flawlessly and was super comfy, I did several 900 mile days in it no problem. I've done the same in a friend's late model truck and it was nicer but I'm just cheap enough to find it not worth spending 5-8 times the money.

In reply to Tom1200 :

I've never been bothered by wind noise, except in vans that have been broken into before.  Stick a dime in the wing window latch.

This is my current towing rig, 1978 F-150, 300 cubic inch 6 cylinder and a New Process 435 transmission.  This photo is on the shore of Chesapeake Bay. Last August I drove from Flint to Richmond VA at about 80mph towing the Hobie Cat with a 14' Jon boat between the Hobie hulls. It took about 13 hours door to door. It is not air conditioned but it has great ventilation. I was ready to get out of it stretch my legs but I don't think that it would have been significantly different In a newer truck. I did have to replace the starter solenoid and the battery while on the trip.  

As far as old vs new, there is really no comparison.  Even if you have a completely rebuilt and like-new 1975 F150, it will never tow as well as a 2015 F150.  Sometime stick your head under something old and compare it to something new (like an old C2500 and a newer C2500).  Frame design, suspension design, brakes, everything is a whole new world.

Having said that, I am a huge fan of old tow rigs.  But to make them perform like something new will be an exercise in futility.  You can tow with an old rig, but it will never be quite as relaxing to pull with as a new truck.  Seriously, a new 1/2 ton will tow better than a 1-ton dually from the 70s, but don't let it stop you.  Just understand that you'll have to put up with the foibles to do it.

In reply to Curtis :

Totally accurate. I love my truck, it does all I need it to do, but the decision to keep it is purely economic. 

Economic issues are a real Grassroots concern. Spending $40k new vs. under $5000, plus the ability to fix most anything that goes wrong cheaply and quickly are near the top when it comes to my reasons for having a vintage tow rig. Anything from the 70s and newer that has been well maintained will easily go cross country without an issue. Heck, I have gone to Albuquerque and back with Powar's $900 6.2 Suburban, and out to Portland, then to Wyoming to pick up an Aspen wagon, then back to Chicago with a $400 360/TBI Dodge B350 van. 

The only issues I had were related to the tow dolly I picked up in Portland for the return trip, and hitting snow in the Bighorn mountains. 

I normally do my local towing  with a Chevy Astro,but to go 1000+ miles to the Challenge I rented a truck. It was a Ford F250 SuperDuty crew cab. To Curtis' point, there's no comparison. It was effortless with an open trailer and a Miata, comfortable, quiet and fast. I'm sure it would readily tow my rig at 100 mph, I did hit 90 a couple of times when not paying enough attention. Downsides? List price was just north of $60K and I just can't see myself getting a lot of use as a DD. Just parking it at the mall would be a nuisance. But, it sure was nice. :)