So, I went to drive my zx2 after it's winter slumber and...no clutch and it's a weird failure to me. I probably suck and it's something stupid but this has never happened to me before.
Literally the clutch pedal won't depress fully, but I can shift it into gear while the car is running without issue or lurching.Every master/slave cylinder problem I've had is the opposite issue where the pedal drops to the floor. No noises that makes me think the throw out bearing failed and it drove perfectly fine to its parking spot. No problem whatsoever shifting before it was parked and it was parked in gear over the winter.
So what causes my clutch to be disengaged, yet unable to fully depress?
That is indeed confusing...
Any sense of whether the friction point has moved?
I guess I'm sort of expecting the friction point to be about as far above the new limit as it used to be above the floor.
Not exactly sure what conclusion to draw from either answer. Guess I'm trying to figure out whether I'm working from "everything is suddenly an inch above where it used to be" or "everything is more or less where it was, but you can't depress the clutch as far past disengagement as normal."
Did the master/slave seize under compression and your just moving a bare plunger/pedal? Is there resistance like a normal pedal until it stops/binds?
iansane said:
Did the master/slave seize under compression and your just moving a bare plunger/pedal? Is there resistance like a normal pedal until it stops/binds?
No movement at all, it's like I hit a brick wall about an inch into it's travel.
Seized master/slave seems to be the best idea. I'll start with the master here in a bit, it doesn't look too bad.
But still, wtf? Makes me feel a bit better that no one instantly told me I missed something stupid.
Jesse Ransom said:
That is indeed confusing...
Any sense of whether the friction point has moved?
I guess I'm sort of expecting the friction point to be about as far above the new limit as it used to be above the floor.
Not exactly sure what conclusion to draw from either answer. Guess I'm trying to figure out whether I'm working from "everything is suddenly an inch above where it used to be" or "everything is more or less where it was, but you can't depress the clutch as far past disengagement as normal."
As far as I can tell nothing has moved, I just hit a brick wall and can't move the clutch pedal
Only thing I question is... with the gearshift being able to go in and out of gears, that means the plate seized in an un-engaged position. I don't think that can happen... unless all the fingers on the diaphragm broke.
This is a puzzle.
Loose bolts on the hat? No engagement and it's binding crooked preventing pedal play?
What happens with the clutch pushed in the one inch it moves and you slowly let out while in gear? Will the car move while in gear with the clutch out?
In reply to Blunder :
No, and the one inch of play has no pressure behind it at all, totally loose.
I can shift into gear without using the clutch while the car is running and it doesn't move either
Master cylinder replaced, after bleeding there is no change. It was less easy than I thought because I can't see anything under the dash
Maybe the slave cylinder somehow seized part way open? If it's just slightly open maybe that's why I can only barely move the pedal?
Looks like it's gonna suck to get to as well, I think I'll have to remove the fan at least but I think replacing the slave cylinder is the next logical step
In reply to iansane :
And I just realized I didn't fully answer your question.
The inch it moves there is zero resistance
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
Only thing I question is... with the gearshift being able to go in and out of gears, that means the plate seized in an un-engaged position. I don't think that can happen... unless all the fingers on the diaphragm broke.
This is a puzzle.
Loose bolts on the hat? No engagement and it's binding crooked preventing pedal play?
Let's hope for slave cylinder because I don't really have the time to drop the transmission right now
It's weird as hell all around
I didn't understand the issue originally; I thought you meant that everything kinda worked normally, but you lost the last inch of travel to the carpet. It just can't be slave cylinder, can it? It would have had to fail in a way that disengaged an engaged clutch, without any physical input. If you'd parked it with a jack holding the clutch pedal down and it seized there, maybe, but not from normal static condition, surely?
Do we know anything about the age and condition of the bits involved? I find myself basically wondering whether the clutch disc failed, and in so doing some of the rubble wedged the pressure plate up. You'd think it would make some noise or something, but if a disc torque smoothing spring (do those have a proper name?) wrapped itself around the shaft... Or the center broke out and the crumbling bits propped the pressure plate upward? It answers both the pedal stoppage and the lack of torque transfer.
It sounds far-fetched, but when you're trying to figure out why a car that was parked with the clutch released somehow has an immovable clutch pedal and no power transmission... The only way a seized slave cylinder could do that, I think, would be for the corrosion to build a ball of junk in the cylinder that actively moved the piston as it grew. That may be the only thing on earth even more implausible than the choreography of the disc disintegration.
Is there any room to get a peek anywhere? I'm guessing the clutch fork boot (if it has one) is in the wrong spot to see this sort of malfeasance, but potentially a clue from the position of the fingers and arm? Is there a cover plate that would let you get a camera, borescope, or bent piece of wire in there to try to feel for what's going on? Heck, if there's any sort of inspection plate or plug at or near the bottom, just checking for debris would be a start.
I guess if you had time for that much jiggery-pokery, you'd have time to drop the trans. I don't want to be a downer, but I don't think you're escaping it. I look forward to finding out what simple answer I missed in coming up with all of the above. 
In reply to Jesse Ransom :
Believe me, it's so insane that even wild assed guesses are on the table. Once I figure out the problem it'll be one for the history books.
Replacing the slave cylinder is more about me firing the parts cannon at it at this point plus it's still easier than dropping the tranny. I do have a boot but the angles are such that I can see basically nothing. A camera is a great idea though and might happen.
My current Wild Assed Guess is maybe the piston bent on the very last press as I was parking it and did so in a way that it jammed slightly open but can't move any farther. Scmmmmaaayyybbbee crazy but seriously, what isn't here.
I hate problems that are not incredibly clear, I'd rather have something blindingly obvious.
So guess what guys?
It was the slave cylinder, it literally rust welded itself open somehow a little bit, when I was removing it the clutch slammed shut.
New slave cylinder is in and it shifts, gotta bleed it a little more to make it feel better but it's working.
Pics for fun
In reply to Antihero :
I apologize for saying it can't be the slave cylinder. Not because it was an unreasonable thing to say, but because I must have invoked some quantum mechanical rule of cars and Murphy's Law that says when you can't rule anything out without checking it or that's what it will be.
I'm blown away.
Jesse Ransom said:
In reply to Antihero :
I apologize for saying it can't be the slave cylinder. Not because it was an unreasonable thing to say, but because I must have invoked some quantum mechanical rule of cars and Murphy's Law that says when you can't rule anything out without checking it or that's what it will be.
I'm blown away.
I'm ecstatic that it was the slave cylinder really, so I'm glad you used your powers for good here
