Combo DD / Rallyx options

Longtime lurker here. I’m pretty sure this group is perfect to help point me in the right direction on this one, so I’m wading in…

Looking for a car to replace my current DD appliance, an ’01 Sentra. For background, I also have a ’01 Dodge Cummins and just picked up a ’93 Benz 400E a few months ago. Absolutely love both of those vehicles. However, neither are what I call a runabout – a small, light, reliable vehicle that gets good mpg and is relatively cheap to operate.

After a few too many hours on YouTube spent watching Swedish and Finnish rally vids, however, I have come to the realization that my life is not complete without starting to do some SCCA rallycross stuff for fun.

So with that, I’ve arrived at the idea that I should pick up a car that can serve double duty as both a runabout and a rallyx car. Looking to keep the purchase price below $3k, manual trans, RWD. I’ve read a lot of the rallyx threads on here, and those have really helped me narrow down my list. Here’s my current list (in no particular order) and a few of my thoughts on each, with a rally car pic to go with each because, well, who doesn’t want to look at pics of rally cars?

BMW E30/E36/E46

Seems the E36 is the lowest price of the BMWs, though I’ve seen some E46s recently at $2k. Always liked the E36. A 318ti might be the best combo of utility, mpg, and cost as a DD. How are they for rallyx? E30’s seem to be on the upswing, price-wise.

Mercedes 190 (W201)

This would be awesome. But with the 400E, not sure I want a smaller version of the same car. And manual cars are rather scarce. As an aside, given the W201’s relatively light weight, slippery body, and impeccable road manners, a W201 with a modern 4-cyl engine swapped in (maybe diesel) seems like the ultimate commuter car to me.

Volvo 240

Required consideration. These would be the most durable of the bunch, right? The thing is, my interest in a mostly stock 240 is precisely 0. I love the modded 240s, but that means it becomes a project, of which I already have too many. They’re so damn cheap though. But they’re lousy on gas mileage and, relatively speaking, huge.

Toyota MR2

Would never have thought of this one until seeing a few reccos on it here on GRM. Intriguing option. Like the size, different than my other vehicles. Not sure if the 1st or 2nd gen would be preferable.

Nissan 300ZX (S31)

Again, never would have considered until saw it on GRM. My dad had an ’85 Turbo that was the most reliable car I’ve ever seen. He bought it when it was a year old, had the entire steering rack replaced under warranty like a month later, and then the next thing to break was the alternator at 185k miles, 14 years later. Engine still pulled hard. Rust was definitely a problem. Somewhat rare these days.

Ford Mustang

Add some American flavor in here. Cheap, reliable, durable, right?

Lancia Stratos

Would have to stretch the budget “a bit”. Not sure about the mpg either.

Thoughts?? I’ve left Subie off. I would consider them, but they seem to hold value well so below $3k gets to be slim pickin’s. Plus, that seems like such an obvious choice…

I’m in DC area, excited to head out to Frostburg and have some fun once I find something and make sure it won’t explode

Get the nicest 2nd-generation MR2 you can and just drive it. Leave it in Stock, keep the A/C, keep the interior, keep it a livable car so that you actually drive it, and at rallycrosses lord it over everyone else when it is 105 degrees outside and you're sitting in grid with the A/C cranked.

IMO.

Low polar moment is nice for changing direction quickly, car has wheelwells enough for decent tires later on and enough drivetrain upgradability for you to overpower those tires and end up going slower than when you had a 130hp 5S-FE...

Miata?

Of the cars on your list, these three are what Id consider, in this order:

1. E36 - there's tons of knowledge out there for them, and they are supposed to be DIY friendly.

2. SN95/SN99 Mustang. Depending on what kind of surface and what courses you run on, a V6 may be just as fast as a V8. Parts availability is great.

3. 300ZX - Should be a fun car. Someone on the board has done fairly well with one of these in rallyx. They are getting hard to find cheaply, at least around me.

I doubt you'll find a good one under 3K, but I'd suggest a 240SX, as well.

The most important thing (to me) about finding a Rallycross car is get one with as little structural rust as possible. Less chance of a catastrophic failure on course.

Does anyone know of anyone rallycrossing an E46? E30/E36's have dried up all around me, but the E46 is plentiful. I haven't heard of it done -- is it just too big/heavy or is it for reasons for rear subframe mount weakness? I wonder how long one would last...

318ti or Volvo 240 are the routes I'd go. Volvo upgrades won't result in typical project status, shorter gear ratios and a limited slip in the rear, oem bolt on turbo bits, oem bolt on 16v head swap. The usual rally related suspension changes that aren't chassis specific

Was the lancia a joke? It's a great rally car, but 3k? Sarcasm I missed right?

http://ithaca.craigslist.org/cto/5583322939.html

How about a fairly clean non-running Celica All-Trac Turbo for $1500?

Calling irish44j........

FYI there is a huge e30 presence at WDCR events and some of the best people you can meet, still on the fence about an e36 myself but I have a perfectly fine protege5 that I'm probably going to use....

Good luck with the search and if you have any hits in the Richmond area send me a message.

I was looking a Stratos kits the other day. Soooo tempting to sell the house, haha. More like 30k, but epic. Looking at, not that I could afford one. Haha!

Lister Bell

In reply to Trackmouse:

Maybe a Lancia beta done is Stratos livery

Anything light, low, and comfortable will work for your needs. I recommend an easy to clean interior. Also, MIATA!

NickD wrote: http://ithaca.craigslist.org/cto/5583322939.html How about a fairly clean non-running Celica All-Trac Turbo for $1500?

Now that may be a good option, depending on why it's not running.

Aren't there issues with the miata needing to be a hard top for rally cross?

I'd rally mine!

AWSX1686 wrote: Aren't there issues with the miata needing to be a hard top for rally cross? I'd rally mine!

yes, a hardtop is required. I'd think twice about using my daily driver as a rallycrosser. It is a bit rough on your car and things will break. Its just a matter of time and how much preventative work goes into the car.

And for a Miata, it's not just any hardtop, it has to be a factory hardtop.

Thanks for all the input, much appreciated.

I had the Miata on my original list, but a convertible is a no-go for me. Thought I could just put a hardtop on it, then saw that just the hardtops (minus car) are running north of $2k. So I eliminated the Miata.

That Celica All-Trac would be cool, but a) it's not running, and b) can't imagine parts are particularly cheap or plentiful for them. Can't remember the last time I saw one on the road.

The Stratos was most definitely a joke. I wasn't even thinking about a replica Stratos. Now that you put the link for the Lister Bell one there, that is way cheaper than I would have guessed. Still 10x above my budget, but in the same ballpark as a new V6 Accord? Wow.

For the NA/NB miata you should be able to find a hardtop for around 1K.

moxnix wrote: For the NA/NB miata you should be able to find a hardtop for around 1K.

Or a rough but complete hardtop-included car for around 2-3K.

JtspellS wrote: Calling irish44j........ FYI there is a huge e30 presence at WDCR events and some of the best people you can meet, still on the fence about an e36 myself but I have a perfectly fine protege5 that I'm probably going to use.... Good luck with the search and if you have any hits in the Richmond area send me a message.

e30 is great for rallycross and can be found cheap, but kind of "old" as daily driver, to be honest. For combo duty I'd probably go toward a 318Ti.....a bit more modernity but basically drives like and e30 (plus hatchback utility). There is one on DC area craigslist right now for $1800, as of yesterday.

Volvo 240 is a solid choice and can be found in good shape for cheap. That said, they're not terribly fast in stockish form (compared to an e30/e36) and are big cars with big overhangs. But they are tough and lots of cheap parts out there.

THe few Benz 190s I've seen come out always seem to break, but I don't know much about them otherwise.

MR2 is a great choice - the main issue (like a Miata) is hauling your wheels/tires, gear, etc. But at least they already have a hardtop ;) Nice later MR2s may be above your price range though.

I always have thought the 300ZX (z31) would probably do well, and am surprised that I have never seen one out there (though one runs in Florida and does fairly well). Big aftermarket, cheap buy-in, great engine. Try to find one without T-tops though.

I've never seen any Mustangs do particularly well in Rally-x (though they do decent in stage), not sure why. Probably less than ideal weight balance for tighter stuff like rally-x, IDK.

Stratos, for sure. Definitely get one

Where in the DC area are you? Some of us are getting together for drinks in Reston/Herndon VA tomorrow if you want to come by and talk shop.

DocV wrote: Does anyone know of anyone rallycrossing an E46? E30/E36's have dried up all around me, but the E46 is plentiful. I haven't heard of it done -- is it just too big/heavy or is it for reasons for rear subframe mount weakness? I wonder how long one would last...

both of those reasons. E36s dried up? Damn, you can find them all day around here for under $3k....

go get this right now. Instantly competitive in stock form and probably reasonable daily driver as well. The M42/44 is a fun engine and likes to rev (also gets over 30mpg in regular driving).

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/cto/5618914234.html

irish44j wrote: I've never seen any Mustangs do particularly well in Rally-x (though they do decent in stage), not sure why. Probably less than ideal weight balance for tighter stuff like rally-x, IDK.

I get the feeling the mustangs behave similarly to what happens if I run the Jeep through a tight stretch in 2wd. Either you go through power-off and either carry lots of speed and understeer everywhere or carry less and it turns, but it's slow. Or you try to give it some power and it gets very sideways with even the tiniest bit of throttle and you're still slow.

Some cars just don't get along with tight sections on a course, yet run with or better than the fast guys in faster, more open course sections.

irish44j wrote: I've never seen any Mustangs do particularly well in Rally-x (though they do decent in stage), not sure why. Probably less than ideal weight balance for tighter stuff like rally-x, IDK.

Even the SN95s have horrible steering geometry that scrubs a lot, if the tires are fighting each other then you're throwing away valuable grip. And speaking of steering, the SN95s are a vast improvement over the Foxes but they are still too numb to really be able to feel what the tires are doing.

Throttle response is also really non-conducive to modulating grip. Lots of engine/drivetrain inertia seems to guarantee that once the tires are broke free, they stay that way.

I only drove one for a couple of laps, though. V6 model SN95. My impression was that you had to instinctively know what the car was doing because it wasn't telling you anything...

rslifkin wrote:

irish44j wrote: I've never seen any Mustangs do particularly well in Rally-x (though they do decent in stage), not sure why. Probably less than ideal weight balance for tighter stuff like rally-x, IDK.

I get the feeling the mustangs behave similarly to what happens if I run the Jeep through a tight stretch in 2wd. Either you go through power-off and either carry lots of speed and understeer everywhere or carry less and it turns, but it's slow. Or you try to give it some power and it gets very sideways with even the tiniest bit of throttle and you're still slow. Some cars just don't get along with tight sections on a course, yet run with or better than the fast guys in faster, more open course sections.

Now, if you put crowds of spectators between each gate, a Mustang would probably be FTD ;)