architect7779 said:a vote for Falken Azenis RT615k+
+1
architect7779 said:a vote for Falken Azenis RT615k+
+1
Added bonus: There's a track test in the next issue, too, and you'll see the RT615k+ in there.
Regarding the 400tw tires. It sounds like you're looking for daily driver tires than can handle one or two autocrosses per year. So, what's more important: long life/daily manners or autocross performance? It sounds like autocross performance is coming second for you guys. Or is it third behind price? Just looking to see exactly what you're after here.
David S. Wallens said:Regarding the 400tw tires. It sounds like you're looking for daily driver tires than can handle one or two autocrosses per year. So, what's more important: long life/daily manners or autocross performance? It sounds like autocross performance is coming second for you guys. Or is it third behind price? Just looking to see exactly what you're after here.
For me, a combination of performance/wear/price (in that order).
No, they won't be 200tw tire grip, but can they be closer?
Since I daily them, I'd like to get a ~ couple years, (so, what, between 20K-25K miles) while doing 4-6 auto-x's a year.
Since I'm in a Miata, price is last, because even the hot rod tires for it are "only" ~ $125ea. Replacing them every year at that price would bother me, though.
I think I paid $80/tire for the Sportcomp-2s. I think S-drives were like $65/tire or something (I didn't like those too much).
There's not much after a 200tw tire that doesn't suck, though. The regular "summer performance" Falkens I had on the Focus were horrible.
Then I ran SC2s on the Focus. Liked those - which is why I got SC2s for the Miata, but I did want a little more performance.
S-drives don't seem to like any heat/heat cycling, and go away pretty quickly (so I had a lot of tread to burn, and they got worse every auto-x I was in...).
There's really not much else out there in a "mid-grade" performance tire that I could discern better than those two, and to me one of them sucked.
My $0.02, anyway....
Yeah, I can concur with that. Price is sort of irrelevant because we are looking at cheap tires regardless. I would say longevity first, then performance, then price. What we want to know is who would be the best daily driver tire, that you could take to the autocross This weekend.
Thanks for the info. The Yokohama S.Drive and BFgoodrich Sport Comp-2 aren't 400tw tires, though--both are in the 300tw range. It sounds like you're asking for budget-priced tires that work on a daily and can be used for autocross. (Just trying to figure out what you guys want before even going to the next step.)
In reply to David S. Wallens :
Exactly.
Edit: it doesn’t have to be maypops either. It could be decent reputation tires like my hankooks or kumhos and generals, etc.
In reply to David S. Wallens :
I'd like a good carcass and some feel. I actually enjoy heat cycled out tires for driving fun. I drove a Mustang on a set of Nitto's once that were fantastic, slow but very predictable. No idea what ones they were.
I'm not a huge fan of the BFG sportcomp 2's that we have on our MGB (if you include autocross as a requirement). Sure they are a great summer street tire, quiet, smooth, probably long lasting. But on autocross course the shoulders roll over a lot, even with camber. They also overheat and fall off very quickly, sometimes even after the first run in the summertime. They really don't like heat. 110* tread temps are already past their heat tolerance.
I think anybody who has more than a passing interest in autocross would be pretty disappointed in anything outside of the 200twr class, especially after seeing what they can do.
I too am interested in a test like that David. The only thing I hear about is the BFG and some like the Conti whatever it's called... ECS?
It sounds like the RS4s might actually accomplish this goal, depending on how good they are for a daily and price.
I like the think I'm going to autocross ten times a year, but it never really happens, so I need a tire that CAN autocross, but is happy on the street/rain and doesn't cost too much.
I am VERY interested in this because the Fiero has been running for awhile now, I want to come to the Mitty for the Skid pad Deal and the 16"s are shot. as in Deep Crack's in the Side's, but really I want to try some of the A E R /Champ/ Long distance type races and I guess street tires are Required.
David S. Wallens said:Thanks for the info. The Yokohama S.Drive and BFgoodrich Sport Comp-2 aren't 400tw tires, though--both are in the 300tw range.
Yes, but the only reason I chose those was I'm trying to eat my cake and still have it.
I don't auto-x often enough to justify 200tw tires, but with seemingly everyone out there on them, hard to know how much I suck - so picked those trying to get "close". Otherwise I'd burn up a set of 200tw tires with mostly daily driving. Nor do I auto-x enough to get/justyify a second set of wheels (though it would be nice to have them for general purposes).
Someone mentioned it would be nice to have a 400tw class - to which I agree; the super competitive guys are out there every month with every club (so running 2-3 times a month), and I get it, but I'm not there yet, and probably won't get there anytime soon.
As much as I've seen the Continental ExtremeContact Sports touted here I'd like to see them head to head with the pointy end... I also have a set on my miata for sunny weather/occasional autocross/couple of track days.
As a guy who has to race a ministock on 320 or harder, there are some really good tires out there that you wouldn't expect. Sadly, they keep getting discontinued. Sumitomo HTR200 isn't a surprise, but the Kumho KH16 was faster. Cooper CS3 would be good with a better carcass, but is almost as fast as a Kuhmo when you add another six pounds of air.
And we are talking cheap here.
Just as a side note, with no track/AutoX (and never bothered getting the car aligned after I put coilovers on it), Star Specs lasted on my BRZ for nearly 26k street miles before they were bald on the inside.
Had I bothered getting them aligned more frequently rotated I'm sure they would have easily lasted another 5-8k miles, and I sometimes hammer off/on ramps and backroads.
So it's not like they just become A7s and fall apart in a few thousand miles.
CyberEric said:
It sounds like the RS4s might actually accomplish this goal, depending on how good they are for a daily and price.
I like the think I'm going to autocross ten times a year, but it never really happens, so I need a tire that CAN autocross, but is happy on the street/rain and doesn't cost too much.
RS4s growl like an off-road tire, I don’t rate them very high for daily driving. You should be looking at something like the Firehawk Indy 500.
David S. Wallens said:Regarding the 400tw tires. It sounds like you're looking for daily driver tires than can handle one or two autocrosses per year. So, what's more important: long life/daily manners or autocross performance? It sounds like autocross performance is coming second for you guys. Or is it third behind price? Just looking to see exactly what you're after here.
Editorial Director, Grassroots Motorsports & Classic Motorsports
This is America and I'm a millennial and I want the best of both words! now if you'll excuse me I will be in my safe zone where comments can't hurt me!
Trackmouse said:In reply to David S. Wallens :
Exactly.
Edit: it doesn’t have to be maypops either. It could be decent reputation tires like my hankooks or kumhos and generals, etc.
Hypothetically, what's your size and budget?
What about the nexens? Sur4g
mw said:What about the nexens? Sur4g
Most of the feedback that I've seen is that they're a half-step off the Bridgestones and BfGoodrich, and also don't last as long.
mazdeuce - Seth said:In reply to te72 :
Short and sweet, no. The longer answer is that (as I've driven them) they tend to react to heat cycles as much as age. They also behave differently in the wet depending on age with some of them getting downright scary long before they're "worn out". Also they won't be as good as new their second season, but they'll still be better than basically any 300+ tw tire is when new. The third season they degrade more, but are still sticky in comparison. It's not that they are no good, just that they're not as good and certainly no longer competitive at the very pointy end of AX in their second and third years.
Thanks Seth, kinda what my experience is telling me as well with a set of Nitto NT05's on the Supra. This will likely be the last season I run them, whether they're worn or not. May give them a proper spinning funeral at the end of the season. =)
As far as competitiveness goes, my car is a bit of an odd duck when it comes to classing, so I'm mostly in it for the fun and opportunity to give ride alongs. Basically it's enough power to end up in the unlimited class at our local event, but I'm not running slicks, soooo... yeah. Not likely to be competitive, no worries. Not sure how our local group's classing compares to SCCA, but I'm basically in a knife fight with a toothbrush. =P
Maybe someone here could answer a question I have about 200tw tires in “budget” endurance racing. We’ll be running a 3100lb 350Z in 40 degree temps this weekend. More psi to make up for the lack of heat building the psi, or less, to put heat into the tire?
racerfink said:Maybe someone here could answer a question I have about 200tw tires in “budget” endurance racing. We’ll be running a 3100lb 350Z in 40 degree temps this weekend. More psi to make up for the lack of heat building the psi, or less, to put heat into the tire?
Hmm... having driven on completely inappropriate tires for cooler temps, I can see where your thinking is leading. I'd be nervous driving on tire that might be both hard (rubber compound, due to the temps) as well as stiff. Might be a bit like driving on a wet concrete patch, easy to spin tires or understeer.
Endurance race though? I'd suggest starting out a bit on the low side of pressures. Do you have a pyrometer and an air compressor in the pits? That would be ideal. Last September we got caught in some suddenly cold and lightly snowing (nothing sticking to the ground, fortunately) weather on our way back from Vegas. Being on NT05's and my friend in his car on RE71R's, I was a bit concerned. Fortunately, aside from a bit of hydroplaning outside of SLC, we both made it home safely. I had my tires at approximately 25 psi, and we both dropped our pace, but kept moving to hopefully keep the tires warm.
I think that's the important takeaway. While the ambient temps may be low, once you start lapping, realistically at any PSI, the tires should start to heat up. Maybe just inflate to the pressure you'd normally run, and take it easy for a few laps until you start feeling grip improve? Remember, weather is a great equalizer, as everyone is in the same conditions you are.
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