In reply to Keith Tanner :
The prospective of an AWD EV Vette is enough to make me start dreaming about what airbrushed underhood mural I'd choose for it!
In reply to Keith Tanner :
The prospective of an AWD EV Vette is enough to make me start dreaming about what airbrushed underhood mural I'd choose for it!
I'm all in for an EV sports car. I've never really been into building and tuning ICEs, so give me all the power right off the showroom floor and I can focus on messing around with cornering and braking.
If anything I'm more sad about the loss of manual gearboxes than I am ICEs, but automatic gearboxes are where ICEs are headed so I may as well skip straight to an EV (which may still have multiple gears: see Taycan).
In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :
But which hood? ;)
Keith Tanner said:The Mach E wearing the Mustang name is simply a way to market the new Ford electric CUV. It's not the result of making a Mustang fully electric, but it sure has messed up people's idea of what an electric car has to be. Thanks, marketing team.
To add: that same marketing team also decided to release two completely different vehicles with the "Bronco" badge applied to them.
Sadly names have no meaning to auto manufacturers.
ClearWaterMS said:BA5 said:I already decided that I'm going to buy the electric sports car that Honda announced a week or so back, so I'm fully here for the electric corvette.
do you have details on this?
Our very own GRM covered their press release here a week or so ago. Admittedly it's not actually much to go on, but the one on the left looks like it might be a continuation of this:
Which I really liked. And I've been really digging Hondas for a while now. They 'fit' me very well.
EV's are fast, but the miata didn't be the best selling sports car of all time by being fast. Engines add soul to a car.
I have driven and even worked on developing EVs and PHEVs, but all they feel like is spicy golf carts. The Tesla Plaid is hoot for a few squirts, but the novelty wore off quickly.
I will mourn the inevitable death of the ICE just as I mourn the death of the manual transmission and previous generations grieve over the death of carbs.
In reply to YoursTruly :
Thing is, the engine is the weakest part of the Miata package. It's never been special, just good enough. And as the platform has evolved, it has gained an engine with more low-end torque, a flatter power curve and sharper throttle response. It's been moving closer and closer to an electric powertrain all along.
I've torn cars down to individual nuts and bolts and have never found the soul module. I've got two cars sitting beside each other in the garage that are very similar in a lot of ways. One is an EV, the other has one of the world's great engines in it. And I find myself driving the EV far more often because it just gets stuff done without all the fuss of warming up an ICE and making sure it's always in the correct gear.
Considering how much the typical Corvette is driven and how much time it spends in the garage, electric seems like a good match. Much like the all electric Lambo's that are supposed to be coming (it will make it hard for all those sheiks sons to do the revving thing though)
In reply to YoursTruly :
Soul is relative. I have come across many Alfa owners in my life, and most of them will tell you that the Miata has barely any soul, if any.
Which tells me that soul is more what perceptions people bring to anything as opposed to something concrete and real.
You say EV's have no soul, other gush over the immediacy of instant torque. Same vehicle, different perceptions and expectations brought.
Interesting. Time marches on. I will be sad when ICE disapears. But EV stuff is so ridiculously cool I guess it won't be all bad.
ICE car guys are going to be like horse girls in the next few decades. Just....weird.
Good for me that I have never really been interested in the 'Vette anyway.
RIP Corvette.
Now change the name to something appropriate, like "Electro-Barge".
Keith Tanner said:In reply to YoursTruly :
Thing is, the engine is the weakest part of the Miata package. It's never been special, just good enough. And as the platform has evolved, it has gained an engine with more low-end torque, a flatter power curve and sharper throttle response. It's been moving closer and closer to an electric powertrain all along.
I get your point about electric powertrains representing the ideal that ICEs have been striving for all along. But I'd counter that the imperfections in IC engines are what make them fun. My old 944 Turbo had really bad turbo lag that made it hard to modulate the throttle and get consistent performance. But damn if it didn't make me giggle when the boost did come in. One of my favorite things about the Fox body Mustangs I've had was that you could sit there with the car idling, punch the throttle in neutral, and the whole car would twist on it's suspension because of the torque and mass of the engine. I've already mentioned the sound of the Boxster's engine, which I love, but I also loved the sound of the Coyote in my 2011 Mustang, for completely different reasons. Speaking of Mustangs, why did Ford go to all the trouble and expense of making the flat-plane engine for the GT350? For the feel and the sound of it. Those things matter.
Unless there are differences I'm not aware of (I've only driven a handful of EVs), electric powertrains all deliver performance the same way. An ocean of silent torque. Yes, it's cool in it's way, but once everything is powered that way, what's the difference?
Again, I agree that electric powertrains are objectively better. But we don't love these inanimate hunks of steel, aluminum, and plastic for objective reasons, do we?
Whether you like it or not, all-gas engines will be out in about a decade for new builds. Canada is targeting all-electric for consumer vehicles by 2035 (https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-canada/news/2021/06/building-a-green-economy-government-of-canada-to-require-100-of-car-and-passenger-truck-sales-be-zero-emission-by-2035-in-canada.html) . California doing the same. Europe likely as well.
While it might not be mandated in all US states or countries, the continuing limited markets for all-gas consumer vehicles will quickly dry up, and it won't be worth creating those versions for a limited market.
So whether you like it or not, new vehicles will be hybrid or all-electric in the coming decade. Don't worry, I fully expect some pretty fun hybrids and all-electrics are gonna be kicking around. If you want to get more excited about tuning and screwing around with all-electric, check out this link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub38tMJ8nkY&ab_channel=HighPerformanceAcademy) about AEMs VCU which is basically the standalone ECU equivalent for electric cars. Seeing the tuning capabilities and such made this kind of vehicle instantly more exciting to me.
alfadriver said:In reply to YoursTruly :
Soul is relative. I have come across many Alfa owners in my life, and most of them will tell you that the Miata has barely any soul, if any.
I'm not an Alfa owner, but I prefer to describe vehicle "soul" using animals. I'd say that the Miata has the soul of a Corgi, athletic, fun, and easy to live with. An EV Miata would definitely still be athletic, fun, and easy to with if electrified.
An Alfa is more like a Pekinese, mischievous but high maintenance and stubborn owned by people who believe other animals who lack these qualities "have no soul" to make themselves feel better about the abusive relationship they're in. If you enjoy being kicked in the crotch over and over again adding EV propulsion to an Alfa would not make it better (for you).
IMHO they should call it something else. If they do I would have no issues. Otherwise, it is like those famous performance/muscle car badges which were then applied to FWD econoboxes.
Will these electric cars have little Bose speakers outside making little noises for me?
What's next? A slot in the road so I stay on it?
leifmadsen said:Whether you like it or not, all-gas engines will be out in about a decade for new builds. Canada is targeting all-electric for consumer vehicles by 2035 (https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-canada/news/2021/06/building-a-green-economy-government-of-canada-to-require-100-of-car-and-passenger-truck-sales-be-zero-emission-by-2035-in-canada.html) . California doing the same. Europe likely as well.
While it might not be mandated in all US states or countries, the continuing limited markets for all-gas consumer vehicles will quickly dry up, and it won't be worth creating those versions for a limited market.
So whether you like it or not, new vehicles will be hybrid or all-electric in the coming decade. Don't worry, I fully expect some pretty fun hybrids and all-electrics are gonna be kicking around. If you want to get more excited about tuning and screwing around with all-electric, check out this link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub38tMJ8nkY&ab_channel=HighPerformanceAcademy) about AEMs VCU which is basically the standalone ECU equivalent for electric cars. Seeing the tuning capabilities and such made this kind of vehicle instantly more exciting to me.
Totally agreed. As I keep saying, I'm not anti-EV, there will probably be one in my garage in the next couple of years. I'm not even saying that the Corvette shouldn't go electric. If/when the whole industry goes that way, it'd be pretty silly to keep it an ICE vehicle.
All I'm saying is that I will be a little sad when one of the most iconic sports cars of all time goes full electric. That's all.
This is why most tracks will not allow electric cars, and if they do, they probably don't know why they shouldn't. Also, if you're in a crash in one, I sure hope you're in an area where the FD has had the extensive training to deal with the problems presented by large amounts of Lithium-Ion batteries.
Swamp Rat 38 catches fire during burnout.
Don Garlits (at 90!) brought his new electric dragster out to Palm Beach International Raceway this last Saturday for the "Last Lap" celebration.
In reply to leifmadsen :
The problem is that the demand for lithium is growing at a substantially faster rate than the supply, and there is nothing I have seen indicating a reversal in that trend in the coming years. That could put a bit of a wrench in all of these mandates.
racerfink said:This is why most tracks will not allow electric cars, and if they do, they probably don't know why they shouldn't. Also, if you're in a crash in one, I sure hope you're in an area where the FD has had the extensive training to deal with the problems presented by large amounts of Lithium-Ion batteries.
I'm sure they'll figure it out, because if they don't they'll go out of business.
BA5 said:Our very own GRM covered their press release here a week or so ago. Admittedly it's not actually much to go on...
I'd like to see what they look like. I'd like to see EV's designed around the space requirements of an electric vehicle, and not modeled on the space and layout needs of a conventional car that has an engine and transmission that everything needs to be designed around.
Your space/layout constraints are suspension, electric motors, and people (and safety for those people).
I'm envisioning something laid out a bit like a McLaren F1 with a centrally located driver pushed forward to allow for impact crumple zones. Then passenger seats to either side and a bit back to keep them behind the front wheels. Then the third row where seats can fold up to fit 1.5 more people, or folded down for additional storage capacity.
A Corvette EV doesn't bother me half as much as the idea of a Corvette SUV.
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:Keith Tanner said:In reply to YoursTruly :
Thing is, the engine is the weakest part of the Miata package. It's never been special, just good enough. And as the platform has evolved, it has gained an engine with more low-end torque, a flatter power curve and sharper throttle response. It's been moving closer and closer to an electric powertrain all along.
I get your point about electric powertrains representing the ideal that ICEs have been striving for all along. But I'd counter that the imperfections in IC engines are what make them fun. My old 944 Turbo had really bad turbo lag that made it hard to modulate the throttle and get consistent performance. But damn if it didn't make me giggle when the boost did come in. One of my favorite things about the Fox body Mustangs I've had was that you could sit there with the car idling, punch the throttle in neutral, and the whole car would twist on it's suspension because of the torque and mass of the engine. I've already mentioned the sound of the Boxster's engine, which I love, but I also loved the sound of the Coyote in my 2011 Mustang, for completely different reasons. Speaking of Mustangs, why did Ford go to all the trouble and expense of making the flat-plane engine for the GT350? For the feel and the sound of it. Those things matter.
Unless there are differences I'm not aware of (I've only driven a handful of EVs), electric powertrains all deliver performance the same way. An ocean of silent torque. Yes, it's cool in it's way, but once everything is powered that way, what's the difference?
Again, I agree that electric powertrains are objectively better. But we don't love these inanimate hunks of steel, aluminum, and plastic for objective reasons, do we?
Fair enough - although I don't think many people really miss 1980's turbo lag all that much :) If the electrics are too polished, we can certainly add a turbo lag emulation subroutine. Shaking the car on the springs is a little harder, but with the right active suspension parts...I totally get that one, the fact that you can see the shake of the Targa Miata at idle on my on-board accelerometer display makes me giggle.
There is a noise when an EV is deploying lots of power, and it changes with higher power ones. It's a great sci-fi whine that you can almost feel. In fact, one of the fun things about the first year of the F1 hybrids (before they were designed to make more noise) was that you could hear the electrical current being shuffled around. Quiet high performance cars aren't really new, the first time I saw a Porsche 962 on track I realized the only noise it makes is basically a whoosh, like a big turbo Miata we built a few years back. But you have to love the 962.
We love certain aspects of cars because of what their flaws remind us of. That turbo lag, for example. Or the noise of a flat-plane crank. If the flat-plane didn't perform, the noise wouldn't be appreciated. I think the whine of a high output EV will come to take its place in that list of desirable sounds.
I showed this video to my wife last week, and she commented about how much she loved that whine. And then she also said she really likes the M5, and she has said that the noise is a big reason why we can't sell it :) So for her, the noise of both the EV and the M5 are good noises. A Corvette that doesn't roar isn't not a Corvette, it's just a Corvette making a different noise.
Keith Tanner said:In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :
But which hood? ;)
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