controlling wheel spin/hop on a s197 mustang?

Living in a traction-limited world, I get a LOT of wheelspin and more than occasional wheel hop driving around every day and its starting to get annoying. As this is my first car with a real engine I'm not sure where to go to increase traction. It's not so much of a right foot problem as its a roads are covered with ice and I'm a dumbass trying to drive a mustang year round in Alaska problem. Tire wise, I have about as much traction as I can get (studded winter tires). In my head at least, trying to get traction on ice shouldn't be much different than trying to get traction in a high horsepower car in summer, right?

So what helps control wheelspin and wheel hop on stick axle cars, in particular the current mustang? Spring changes, shock changes, control arms, panhard bars, frame braces ...? If it matters, the only sporting use I may eventually see the car doing is a track day at Tanacross in the distant future, and drag racing at Palmer or the new track they're building in North Pole, otherwise all street driving.

Big one will be getting aftermarket LCA's that don't have rubber bushings.

S197s are not favorable to forward motion in winter conditions.

z31maniac wrote: Big one will be getting aftermarket LCA's that don't have rubber bushings.

THIS. I'm probably going to get some Whiteline LCAs and relocation brackets for my 2013 V-6 once I get the Alfa 164 sorted out. Sky_Render already has them on his 2012 GT and says they work great.

Even the new sixxer can generate wheel hop if I lean on it enough.

On ice, not much is going to make any noticeable difference except a smarter right foot.

LCAs, UCA, same as pavement. If it's a stick you could try starting in second to limit applied torque. Or work on your clutch technique.

LCAs, and some better shocks.

Less weight and skinnier tires?

Couple 100lb bags of something, sand is good, in the trunk.

Better bushings in the back probably. The bushing can act as an underdampned spring in a direction that the shock cannot limit.

After that, perhaps looking at tighter shocks, but I am not sure that they would do too much in a winter world where you will want some compliance. Try the bushings first and see.

Roush has a kit that might do you good and isnt too pricy. http://www.roushperformance.com/parts/3rd-Link-Wheel-Hop-Reduction-Kit-for-Mustang-2011-2012.html (cannot remember if you have a 05-10 or newer, but they have kits for both)

The first thing should be to check and adjust the loose nut behind the wheel. I've driven thousands of miles in winter conditions in RWD pickups and vans,(mostly in rural PA, I'm sure it doesn't measure up to AK, but I'll bet your roads are maintained better). Some of those trucks had good tires, some not so good. I've managed to keep them going mostly straight and out of the ditch.

So I imagine that driving a mustang on Alaskan roads in winter is like a full time Rally-X. So with that in mind I would think that stiffer rear shocks wouldn't be a good move, I could see arguments both ways for the bushings and LCAs, the mustang experts (which I am not one of)could give better recommendations about that.

I wonder too, if the studded tires aren't part of the problem. Modern winter snow and ice rated tires are pretty darn good without studs. I've seen ice racing in up state New York, and they have a rubber on ice class for street cars. Those cars go respectably well. OTOH, the only RWD cars that I saw competing were miatas, and they weren't running in the front.

You never said what brand of tires your using, have you checked to see if green diamonds are available in a size to fit your 'stang?

I'm running General Arctic Altimax's with studs. They are much much much better than the Blizzaks I ran last winter. I did check if Green Diamonds were available, but I don't remember if they were or not. I'm happy with the tires. This winter I can actually steer the car on icy roads instead of praying my way around when I leave town. Tire are already skinnier than stock (stock are 225/60-16, these are 215/65-17 per Tire Rack's recommendation).

Losing weight, I'm working on it. Planet Fitness is cheap, but unfortunately cheap enough that I don't feel bad when I don't go...

Extra weight in the trunk kinda helps the rear end, but also takes away grip from the front end. Found that out hauling a couple kegs for work last winter...

Is there a big difference between brands of LCA/UCA's? Steeda and Roush work for Ford as OE suppliers, which has to be of some benefit, but there seems to be more dealers and suppliers than I can keep track of. Opinions?

In reply to skierd:

I have some of those Generals on a traction challenged(ie alloy block) prizm, It will climb a friggin wall compared to any "winter friendly" no seasons I've used. Just today I encountered a ~20% grade road that was more or less ice and accelerated up it, in 2nd, just to prove a point to the other occupants. That was without studs. I'd say you've got the right rubber.

Weight in the backseat area and/or very front of trunk, right over the axle, will not reduce weight on the front. It's only when you put weight behind the axle some distance that you get that moment arm lifting the front.

more weight all around- in addition to a couple of hundred pounds of sand in the back over the drive wheels, find a way to get a couple of hundred pounds of weight over the wheels that do the steering.

maybe go even skinnier on the tires- you want the weight spread out over as little area as possible for traction on ice and in snow.

or just drive slower and/or get a cheap fwd car with good studded winter tires to use as a winter beater. my cheap beat to hell 97 and 98 Cavaliers with crap tires were all but unstoppable in the winter, and my current 01 Grand Prix GTP with old dry rotted no name tires on it does pretty damn good, too. the GTP is a little better, thanks to it's extra mass and the more steady application of torque off idle compared to the Cavvies..

Mustangs are so popular you do have TONS of options on where to get your parts. Be wary, there are many companies that sell sub-standard parts and there are companies that sell parts that are downright DANGEROUS. Roush and Steeda are fair bets for decent parts, Maximum Motorsports would be a good bet for great parts, but I have a feeling that the Roush parts are the closer to OEM type (less race tradeoff) that would fit your needs better.

I have non-studded Alti's on my Miata, I doubt its the tires. Ford has a habit of using bushings that are rather large and soft, hence your wheelhop. Do some searching for videos from drag strips and you can find suspension cams showing the bushings moving like crazy hopping.

I am pretty sure that thats your problem.

Not sure if its UCA's, LCA's or both, but I do remember one showing radical UCA movement.

Adding weight to the car is a rather mixed bag. It might help you get going, but it wont help you turn and stop. I am pretty sure that its not really going to do much about the wheel hop.

Steeda solution http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdsITMgsJZ0

Maximum looks like they just give you better urethane bushings for the stock parts.

Apex probably tells the truth. I would at least replace the bushings with something harder than the soft rubber you have there stock.

In reply to mad_machine: Here you go:

http://www.newedgeperformance.com/prothanerearcontrolarmbushingkit20052009mustang.aspx

In winter, Mustangs are as bad as pickups due to poor weight distribution and RWD.

Could it just be the traction control kicking in?

No, traction control is a lot smoother than wheel hop. And I can get wheel hop with traction control sometimes.

As far as being bad in winter... no, it's pretty good and feels fairly well balanced. It's no miata, but it's not 2wd pickup bad by any stretch. I'd rather drive my car on studded winter tires than the fiance's Crosstrek on all-seasons honestly.

Leaning towards Steeda LCA/UCA/whiteline brackets, and who knows maybe steeda springs and koni's. And...

A cheap, factory way to go for LCAs are GT500 LCAs. They look exactly the same as stock LCAs aside from silver paint but the bushings are of a slightly harder durometer. They are stock on 2011-2014 Performance Package V-6s and work pretty well. I still get some wheel hop but that's mainly when launching while it's cold out. I don't get any wheel hop otherwise.

Both Sky_Render and I have Steeda springs and Koni Yellow dampers and they are an excellent combination for both daily driving and hooning. Since my suspension is no longer stock I'm probably going to go with all Whiteline for the UCA/LCA/LCA relocation brackets.

^Of note, Vorshlag went through a ton of UCA's before going back to stock IIRC. All the aftermarket ones made a ton of noise.

I spent a lot of time reading their blog last night and noticed that, along with some messages I got from Sam Strano on the subject. Right now I'm heavily leaning towards either a Steeda upper link for a stock height car or the Roush anti-hop upgrade since it uses rubber like the factory mount, but a stronger design with a harder durometer.