Corvair: From bench racing to drag racing

Well I've come here looking for some insight about my latest hair brained idea. Last year I built a cafe racer out of a dead suzuki GR650 motorcycle(Documented on the Suzuki GR 650 Index website). This year I want to build a wheel standing corvair. I already have a 1967ish Monza 140 without the engine and tranny. I've also got the complete front clip off a 1977 cadillac eldorado. It came with the FWD 425ci auto setup. My current plan is to place the front clip in place of the original rear setup on the corvair. It will take up some of the rear passenger area and the clip is about 10" wider than the original corvair body. I plan to make the drivetrain a bolt-in cradle setup. I am currently looking for a larger 472 or 500ci motor to replace the 425 since this should give me around 500ft.lbs of torque to play with, without a whole lot of investment in engine performance. I am also trying to do this on a limited budget, hopefully less than $1000. I am fortunate to have access to a well equipped fabrication shop, but have never attempted anything quite on this scale.

I posted here because I know there is a wide variety of expertise on this site from budget minded racers who I hope will have some suggestions. I thought about posting on a corvair website, but figured too many purists would get upset at the thought of a nice corvair being hacked up. All the original information that I have found on corvair drag cars indicate that serious racers turn them into front engine machines. Like I mentioned at the beginning I want a WHEELSTANDER. I figure since I'm not going to be the quickest, I might as well be the most entertaining and keeping all that weight over the rear wheels coupled with some serious torque should give me the result I'm hoping for... thoughts appreciated. Let the bench racing begin!

Pete

I like it.

But...

I'm thinking your weight distributions may be a little tough to get it to stand up. I'm not familiar with the Eldorado layout, but most FWD engines sit in front of the front wheels. That would make your Corvair mid-engined, and the Caddy 500 truly is a boat anchor. You are putting an enormous amount of weight in the middle, which would need an awful lot of torque to wheelstand. Although, I've seen NHRA wheelstanding trucks, and their mid engined layout would be similar in distribution (though their rear end is definitely different)

I'm hoping your 'Vair isn't a convertible. It would be very unhappy on landing.

Rear end layout???

Once you get through these hurdles, then there will be tech inspection. There's a lot involved in making a car like this NHRA legal. Scattershield, etc. are difficult (and pricey) for the Caddy. Cage probably needed.

Just a few thoughts. I do like it.

oh you'll need a cage ! If just to make the wheel stand repeatable.

The vair tub won't take too many with out crumbling up.

There's no replacement for displacement. And torque monsters are a blast.

Remember: All is possible with a Sawsall , welder and enough time and enthusiasm!

That swap was somewhat familiar 25 years ago. Call Clarks and tell them what you plan on doing--they'll know more than anyone here about doing this particular swap.

I think you had to reverse the engine rotation, but that may be another 'Vair swap.

Good luck, and keep us posted. Spend another $1009, and you may win the $2009 Challenge.

Corvair 'Mystery Mover' wheelstander: http://vintage-vans.forumotion.com/g-van-general-discussion-f4/mystery-mover-corvair-wheelstander-t675.htm

There are a few more Corvair wheelstanding vans here: http://public.fotki.com/VincePutt/drag_racing/wheelstanders/chevy-wheelstanders/ I don't recall if there were ever any regular Corvairs built up for wheelstanding or not.

I appreciate the input already. The link to the Vince Putt photos is great. The Perry "Fugitive" corvette drag car has a layout very similar to what I'm thinking, rear engine not mid-engine. I too am concerned about the tub and about how much stiffening it will require to take wheelstanding punishment. I plan to work on the engine cradle assembly/ rear suspension from now till Christmas, then I'll bring the car in the shop and start chopping /welding until it fits right. Anyone got any tips for building Caddy motors?

When you say you're building a wheelstander do you mean you just want to do wheels up launches or hang the hoops for the entire 1/4 mile? If it's the latter you'll not only need lots of power hung over the rear wheels but, among other things, an independent rear wheel braking system ( to steer ) and a plexiglass floor section ( to see ).

As far as the Caddy engine goes I seem to remember that a stock 500 with 472 heads runs pretty strong for the money.

This sounds very similar to the Toronado conversion that has been done to Corvairs in the past, here is a link to one:

http://www.corvaircorsa.com/lc01.html

As you can tell there is a wheel track issue. The one shown above is obviously wider than stock. The conversion is normally done with a stock width track. The side effect (and one of the issue with the conversion) is that the drive shafts end up being very short which makes for some really crappy suspension side effects. The resulting car (when you also add in the fact that the car is now even more tail heavy than stock) is a rather poor handling car.

In your case this will likely not be a problem. Your main concern (if you go for the stock narrower track) might be camber changes on acceleration.

As noted above, I would search, and refer to your idea as a variation on the Toronado conversion, that should get you some useful info.

About ten years ago there was a guy in southeastern New Mexico running a Rampside wheelstander called the Mexican Jumping Bean. If I remember right, he was runing a 454 Chevy midengined, a Crown-type setup. It was a typical show wheelstander, carried the front end the full quarter mile, I think running 10s. Lots of excellent fabrication. I don't think there's any way you can get a real wheelstander through tech for under $1K.

I agree that tech is going to be rough.

When thinking through the cage, consider that thhose vans and rampsides have very high rooflines. This would allow for a large cage with a lot of triangulation.

The 'Vair has a very low profile. The 'Vair convertible is almost cut in half already from the factory.

I had a fairly extensive conversation with our own 10 second Guru (Wheels 777) about the Caddy 500 motor at one point.

His opinion (at that time) seemed to be, even with his flea market shopping prowess, the legal safety gear for the Caddy motor would not be readily available to make it financially feasible at $200X prices.

But you haven't said how fast you were planning on going. If you build it off balance enough, you can probably bounce right up on the wheelie bars and drive down the 1320 at 20 mph or so.

If you want a wheel standing car, might I suggest a Geo Metro with a rear mounted, transverse Northstar + Nitrous?

Hmmm...I've got a Metro.

I've got a Northstar.

I've got nitrous.

But I've got eviler plans.

Really? Like what?

Wow, that Larry Claypool corvair is practically identical to my current plan except I don't plan to make mine streetable, track only. I made some calls tonight and I've got a line on a 500ci motor that I plan to keep stock for the time being until I get everything sorted. His went 13s with the stock(?) 425, I can't imagine what the potential for my corvair would be on a ultraslim fast track diet... guess I will find out. Thanks for the great links and insight.

TheBen wrote: Really? Like what?

Apparantly you don't know I race Yugos.

IT all depends on what u want the car for....

Larry called his car ""The lead tail Lump"

I wouldn't expect any FTDs on an autocross from that kind of setup.

When a 5.3/ 4.8 LSX motor with 300HP can be had for $500 these days and weighs 420Lbs.....I would be lookin at that

just my 2 cents.

SVreX wrote:

TheBen wrote: Really? Like what?

Apparantly you don't know I race Yugos.

A mid-mounted Northstar + Nitrous in the back of a Yugo? Oh heavens me ...

Not really related to nose standing, but there is one really cool Corvair in September's Racecar Engineering.

Well I guess I am commited to the build now (or may be I should be admitted). I just pulled a 500ci out of a '75 Eldorado, looks to be in good shape. I had to chuckle looking at the specs for the motor in the old Mitchell Shop manual I have, 190hp and 360ft-lbs net which was the big-block motor with the most torque for that time period, the 2nd place 440 chrysler was rated at 355ft-lbs in the same manual. I'm already contemplating a turbo setup if I find the torque insufficient for my wheel standing purposes. Well my goal is to have the engine cradle all setup and running by X-mas so wish luck.

I just came across this discussion - unlike many other cars, modifying Corvairs has been part of their history from the beginning (there is a CORSA chapter for "CorvEights"), there have been a few buildups similar to yours - although I don't think anyone has intentionally tried to build a wheelstander

Most of the Toronado conversions I've heard about use an adapter axle to join the Toro diff to the Corvair hubs.

Here are a couple more sites that may help:

The Corvair V-8 registry

V8Vairs mailing list

And my site:

Corvair Autocross and Racing pages

--Bryan