I just need budget numbers. Assume I have a suitable car in race ready shape minus required safety and other requirements?
Nothing in my closet is new enough to meet requirements nor do I have proper belts transponder? Etc.
What does a cage cost? Or maybe I can weld one up? If I want to race SCCA are fuel cells mandatory or can you still use the stock gas tank?
It really depends on what sanctioning body you are racing for. Sometimes it’s as simple as a suit, helmet, hans, cage compliance, and a car that won’t fall apart.
I’d budget 5-10k just in safety gear.
In reply to Trackmouse :
Well if it costs $10,000 to put a rollcage in and required safety gear then it’s massively out of reach.
Helmet, suit, gloves, and Hans. For driver
Belts, kill switch, fire extinguisher, transponder for car.
Plus the roll cage.
What am I missing?
Cage, $2000. Transponder I think it’s $100 a year subscription. Fire supresion system if required $300. If not $20. Belts $200. Helmet and Hans $1200. Suit $500. Shoes socks gloves $200.
Thats my guesstimate. It’s been 8 years since I bought most of this stuff.
Got new Gforce belts for $180 this year. A new Black Armor CF helmet for $600 last year.
Raceimage.com has used NASCAR suits from $200.
And with some shopping A Lot of that can be used(fire suit)and you don't need them in a Parking lot. You know as well as anyone that real racing needs real Safety. but you can get away with Borrowed stuff or if anyone come's along with you split the Cost and also Here in GRM The Magazine, are Race clothing equipt. Rental Stores.
I'm discovering this myself as I begin my first year of club racing. I started out with the mentality of doing it as cheap as possible but that has changed as I've learned more about safety. Depending on the class you don't need a fuel cell nor fire suppression system (just an extinguisher is required). I bought a car with a decent cage, seat, harness, window nets, and non-subscription transponder so I can't comment on those.
Here's about where I'm at:
Helmet and Hans device: 1300
Suit: 550
Gloves, underwear, shoes, socks, balaclava: 350
Fire extinguisher, quick release mount: 80
Race school and licensing is another major expense...I think I spent around 500-600 on that. Most of these are long term purchases so I expect the spending will slow down. Of course there will always be expenses associated with each race such as consumables and entry fees.
Based on the chump team I have talked to you also need to account for about 2k a weekend in entry fees plus gas/tires/lodging/food
Cage costs seem to depend a lot on the car and how custom it will need to be. Using Autopower as a pricing example, cages seem to run from $1100 and up.
There are numerous online vendors for cages as well as other safety gear. Most advertise in the back of the magazine. 
If budget is the main concern, it's always cheaper to buy a car already built and logged. You just may need to be flexible about what car it is.
$5000 for a season racing locally/regionally in a shifter kart not including time lost from work.
From what I gather about the cheapest way to go W2W racing is buying a seat in LeMons/WRL/Champ/AER, etc.
My buddy does a very good job of prepping his WRL GP3 Miata, and being prepared for problems/failures. The car is typically always competitive and has a few wins.
Assuming you have all your safety gear (shoes/suit/Helmet/HANS/etc), I think the last time he asked it was around $1300 to buy a seat for the weekend (obviously more at tracks like COTA that have a higher entry fee). That included your transport to and from the track, all consumables, entry fee, etc. A pretty good deal. And his wife and few other drivers are usually present to cook food, run into town, etc.
Even at my local track Hallett, HPDE still gets pricey. $135 per day for 5 sessions (this does not include the covered parking on concrete which was always a must for me) so call it $300 in fees for both days, food/water, consumables, etc. I figured my average HPDE weekend cost somewhere around $500-600 for 3 hours of track time.
We just finished a Lemons race.
The cage was the cost of tubing. Jensenman and I built it 6 years ago. It was about $150 in tubing back then, figure $200+- now. Amortized over the life of the car, it's pretty cheap. I did have to add another passenger door bar for this race, $0, as I already had the tubing. The cage is a one time expense unless you smash up the car. This is event #6 for the Civic.
Don't cheap out on brake pads. Race pads are $250, we get 2, 14 hour events out of them. Oil and such are negligible. We did have to replace a head gasket Saturday, $20. We will have to add a fire suppression unit for next year, $300. Tires are $90 each. We had to buy 6 for this race due to age, but the next race will only need two new tires.
Suits and such can range from ridiculous to reasonable. One team member bought a used suit for $100, $90 shoes and socks, used her autocross helmet and borrowed a Hans. Another team member spent well over $2k for personal safety gear. Harnesses are the same, Gforce, $70, Schroth, $400+. Shop smart and prices are reasonable. Buy the pretty stuff or the latest and greatest, expect to pay dearly. For the most part, personal gear is a one time cost.
Entry fees for the weekend were around $1300 split 4 ways. Gas for the car was about $200, and everyone slept at the track. Food for the entire crew was about $300 and that was me feeding about 15 people, 3 meals a day for 3 days.
You can do racing on the cheap, and every event gets cheaper until you smash up a car. The gear, cage and such don't have to be bought every race. Every Lemons race car we have built was paid for by the entire team and split 4-6 ways. That makes things cheaper per person. Just build it with people you like.
Jaynen said:Based on the chump team I have talked to you also need to account for about 2k a weekend in entry fees plus gas/tires/lodging/food
I won’t go Chump/LeMons racing. Too old and out of shape to do a 2 hour stint. More into 20 minute practice and qualifying 30 min race. Of SCCA
Toyman01 said:We just finished a Lemons race.
The cage was the cost of tubing. Jensenman and I built it 6 years ago. It was about $150 in tubing back then, figure $200+- now. Amortized over the life of the car, it's pretty cheap. I did have to add another passenger door bar for this race, $0, as I already had the tubing. The cage is a one time expense unless you smash up the car. This is event #6 for the Civic.
Don't cheap out on brake pads. Race pads are $250, we get 2, 14 hour events out of them. Oil and such are negligible. We did have to replace a head gasket Saturday, $20. We will have to add a fire suppression unit for next year, $300. Tires are $90 each. We had to buy 6 for this race due to age, but the next race will only need two new tires.
Suits and such can range from ridiculous to reasonable. One team member bought a used suit for $100, $90 shoes and socks, used her autocross helmet and borrowed a Hans. Another team member spent well over $2k for personal safety gear. Harnesses are the same, Gforce, $70, Schroth, $400+. Shop smart and prices are reasonable. Buy the pretty stuff or the latest and greatest, expect to pay dearly. For the most part, personal gear is a one time cost.
Entry fees for the weekend were around $1300 split 4 ways. Gas for the car was about $200, and everyone slept at the track. Food for the entire crew was about $300 and that was me feeding about 15 people, 3 meals a day for 3 days.
You can do racing on the cheap, and every event gets cheaper until you smash up a car. The gear, cage and such don't have to be bought every race. Every Lemons race car we have built was paid for by the entire team and split 4-6 ways. That makes things cheaper per person. Just build it with people you like.
Yeh, that’s the price I was guessing for tubing while a chrome moly cage would be lighter, I sold my TIG welder so I’ll use DOM and use the MIG welder. I’ll have a local shop bend the tubes for me only 4 bends. Two on the main hoop and one each on the windshield posts. Then notch and weld them in myself.
I’m old fat and stiff so it will be easier for me to cut off the roof. Weld everything in and then weld the top back on rather than crawl around trying to get the right angle to weld properly.
Seemed like with SCCA I’d get a a couple / three races and the helmet or belts or something was expired. I started out buying the best stuff and towards the end I’d take whatever was the cheapest.
Never regretted it in the 50+ years I raced. In fact I noticed Sir Sterling Moss raced in a helmet that was at least a decade old and a lot of the Indy car drivers I shared the race track with wore suits and helmets that wouldn’t get past the club’s tech inspection.
Then I'd buy a built car with a log book and personal safety gear and go that route. You will also need to go through the ordeal of getting your competition license.
Toyman01 said:Then I'd buy a built car with a log book and personal safety gear and go that route. You will also need to go through the ordeal of getting your competition license.
Last couple of times I renewed my expired SCCA license they’d just run me through a regional drivers school and then renew it.
I doubt the flags have changed too much. Green still means go doesn’t it? ( silly grin)
Toyman01 said:We just finished a Lemons race.
The cage was the cost of tubing. Jensenman and I built it 6 years ago. It was about $150 in tubing back then, figure $200+- now. Amortized over the life of the car, it's pretty cheap. I did have to add another passenger door bar for this race, $0, as I already had the tubing. The cage is a one time expense unless you smash up the car. This is event #6 for the Civic.
Don't cheap out on brake pads. Race pads are $250, we get 2, 14 hour events out of them. Oil and such are negligible. We did have to replace a head gasket Saturday, $20. We will have to add a fire suppression unit for next year, $300. Tires are $90 each. We had to buy 6 for this race due to age, but the next race will only need two new tires.
Suits and such can range from ridiculous to reasonable. One team member bought a used suit for $100, $90 shoes and socks, used her autocross helmet and borrowed a Hans. Another team member spent well over $2k for personal safety gear. Harnesses are the same, Gforce, $70, Schroth, $400+. Shop smart and prices are reasonable. Buy the pretty stuff or the latest and greatest, expect to pay dearly. For the most part, personal gear is a one time cost.
Entry fees for the weekend were around $1300 split 4 ways. Gas for the car was about $200, and everyone slept at the track. Food for the entire crew was about $300 and that was me feeding about 15 people, 3 meals a day for 3 days.
You can do racing on the cheap, and every event gets cheaper until you smash up a car. The gear, cage and such don't have to be bought every race. Every Lemons race car we have built was paid for by the entire team and split 4-6 ways. That makes things cheaper per person. Just build it with people you like.
When I first went vintage racing back in 1975 I taped up the headlights. Borrowed a suit helmet and fire extinguisher And already had a 3 inch lap belt.
Paid my $10 entry fee and put the numbers on the car with shoe polish.
We were the noon event for The Trans-Am
I think my first SCCA drivers school in 1969 cost $45 and 104 octane gas was 32 cents a gallon
Easier times back then!
It looks like local club events will be the cheapest way to go racing. Even cheaper than SCCA regional events. But I might get my license with SCCA if they will renew it after a drivers school refresher
consumables like oil is real expensive since I use 14 quarts of it in the Jaguar and that is one area I don’t cheap out with.
Brake pads on the other hand last at least a season even with racing at Elkhart Lake. 4 mike long track. Three high speed straights followed by tight 90 degree corners total of 14 corners per lap. ( and the best passing is under braking)
Fuel would be insanely expensive except I’ll use E85 so instead of a couple of drums of the $14.00 a gallon stuff I’ll bring a couple of drums of $1.75 a gallon stuff
z31maniac said:From what I gather about the cheapest way to go W2W racing is buying a seat in LeMons/WRL/Champ/AER, etc.
My buddy does a very good job of prepping his WRL GP3 Miata, and being prepared for problems/failures. The car is typically always competitive and has a few wins.
Assuming you have all your safety gear (shoes/suit/Helmet/HANS/etc), I think the last time he asked it was around $1300 to buy a seat for the weekend (obviously more at tracks like COTA that have a higher entry fee). That included your transport to and from the track, all consumables, entry fee, etc. A pretty good deal. And his wife and few other drivers are usually present to cook food, run into town, etc.
Even at my local track Hallett, HPDE still gets pricey. $135 per day for 5 sessions (this does not include the covered parking on concrete which was always a must for me) so call it $300 in fees for both days, food/water, consumables, etc. I figured my average HPDE weekend cost somewhere around $500-600 for 3 hours of track time.
My budget for a weekend is $1000 between entry fee food and lodging. ( tent or the back of a SUV ) Elkhart Lake has nice hot showers
I ignore the credit card damage buying gas to and from meals to and from etc.
The cost of building the race car is best dealt with out of sight of SWMBO I’ll never tell her how much i sell pieces off the car for. Nor will she ever see any receipts for parts etc.
Ice racing is the cheapest wheel to wheel racing. Unfortunately the seasons are short.
Go dirt track. Sponsors are available. Buy in can be expensive unless you can score a ride. Not likely.
Hey, you get paid. Helps.
I like ICE racing but hate working on a car in the cold. I started my racing career dirt track racing and you are right it can be extremely affordable
Plus to me at this stage of my life it’s about being different and doing it my way not just being on the track in any car. Nothing left to prove, just want to have fun.
I’ll race a Jaguar or stay at home.
I'm one of the people who spent over 10 grand on safety. Full cage custom built by pro chassis shop because although I can stick metal together with a MIG I wanted to have the safest cage TIG welded by people that really know what they're doing and plan on eventually going ludicrous speed. I plan on open road events that require a navigator with same safety equipment as driver, so an extra set of harnesses and seat compared to W2W racing. Safety equipment is cheap
Safety equipment install thread here http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/48151-The-14-Car-safety-thread-Roll-Cage-Kirkey-seats-Fire-systems
One of the last posts from the thread below.
Thought I'd give some input on the safety upgrades after having them for a couple of years now. Since there's been several PT events that were held on road race tracks there's been a lot more talk on the forum about roll bars and roll cages, seats, harnesses, fire systems, and personal safety equipment.
Things I would do different if I did this again:
Route the tubing for the fire systems before carpet install so the tubes would be hidden.
Design the fire bottle mount a little lower and a couple inches forward.
Ask fabricator to allow space for carpet under the roll cage tubes that are close to the floor.
Use the Kirkey intermediate road race seat now available to eliminate all the hassles with the head halo and the adjustable shoulder protection. Easier install, getting in and out of the car, and less expensive.
Mount the fire system knobs by the drivers A pillar. tech officials mentioned that they feel this is the best location because the driver can pull the knobs while exiting and the safety crew can reach them from outside of the car, PLUS they expect the knobs there. Mine are almost impossible to reach from outside the car, especially if the driver is still in the seat (possibly hurt or whatever).
I don't find the 6 point Schroth harnesses nearly as annoying as the 5 point harnesses I've had in other
The total for the safety equipment is over $10,000 so far. $4500.00 fabrication shop, $2,500.00 total in seats, $1,100.00 fire systems, $1,200.00 harnesses, $700.00 helmet, plus all the paints, padding, switches, and other supplies needed. I still need arm/leg restraints, door net for LSR events, a full fire suit, gloves/shoes/baclava/socks/underwear required for the classes I want to run, and the Hans device I want. those items will easily exceed 2 grand and probably be closer to three.
Next it's time to get the new brakes/wheels/tires on the car! It's been tough to convince myself to dismantle a perfectly good car again to do the upgrades!
frenchyd said:Jaynen said:Based on the chump team I have talked to you also need to account for about 2k a weekend in entry fees plus gas/tires/lodging/food
I won’t go Chump/LeMons racing. Too old and out of shape to do a 2 hour stint. More into 20 minute practice and qualifying 30 min race. Of SCCA
Regardless of the venue, the best way to race cheap is to start with used stuff. Some buddies of mine just bought a VERY nice pro-built ex B-spec Fiesta with a ton of spares for $6500. Cage work is gorgeous.
GENERALLY - People that build race cars don't drive them and people that drive them don't build them. If you're a driver, building a car is a grind and takes a lot of the fun out of it. I know this is GRM, which falls right in the middle of that Venn diagram, but it's often cheaper to buy than build, even if your time is valued at $0/hr. There will always be plenty of work to do on a race car to scratch that itch, even if you didn't build it.
I have a nice Sparco Profi suit that was only worn 3 times that I picked up for $400. I bought an Arai helmet and I think it was about a grand after it was spec'd out the way I want. Got a carbon fiber HANS pro freshly recertified for $400. Figure another $400 for shoes, gloves, coolshirt. About $2500 in personal protective gear, but I've aged out of invincibility mode and I have dependents. Light weight and breathability is what you're paying extra for, and it's worth it. Lots of people cycle through the hobby and you can get lightly used stuff for pennies on the dollar.....but all this stuff started as a giant pile of dollars, so it still aint cheap.
I think that Lemons and Champcar are the best places to cut your teeth on W2W racing. If you're not in the hunt for the podium, you can just stay out for as long as you want. Plus you get to hang with your buddies and have built-in race support. It's tough doing club racing as a one-man show.
Tyler H said:frenchyd said:Jaynen said:Based on the chump team I have talked to you also need to account for about 2k a weekend in entry fees plus gas/tires/lodging/food
I won’t go Chump/LeMons racing. Too old and out of shape to do a 2 hour stint. More into 20 minute practice and qualifying 30 min race. Of SCCA
Regardless of the venue, the best way to race cheap is to start with used stuff. Some buddies of mine just bought a VERY nice pro-built ex B-spec Fiesta with a ton of spares for $6500. Cage work is gorgeous.
GENERALLY - People that build race cars don't drive them and people that drive them don't build them. If you're a driver, building a car is a grind and takes a lot of the fun out of it. I know this is GRM, which falls right in the middle of that Venn diagram, but it's often cheaper to buy than build, even if your time is valued at $0/hr. There will always be plenty of work to do on a race car to scratch that itch, even if you didn't build it.
I have a nice Sparco Profi suit that was only worn 3 times that I picked up for $400. I bought an Arai helmet and I think it was about a grand after it was spec'd out the way I want. Got a carbon fiber HANS pro freshly recertified for $400. Figure another $400 for shoes, gloves, coolshirt. About $2500 in personal protective gear, but I've aged out of invincibility mode and I have dependents. Light weight and breathability is what you're paying extra for, and it's worth it. Lots of people cycle through the hobby and you can get lightly used stuff for pennies on the dollar.....but all this stuff started as a giant pile of dollars, so it still aint cheap.
I think that Lemons and Champcar are the best places to cut your teeth on W2W racing. If you're not in the hunt for the podium, you can just stay out for as long as you want. Plus you get to hang with your buddies and have built-in race support. It's tough doing club racing as a one-man show.
Except I’m anything but a novice. I have close to 50 years of racing. Including some of the best in the world.
I’ve built my own cars and raced them on a budget smaller than some pay for meals. With a decent amount of success. In those decades of racing I’ve had only one tiny accident that took me less than 20 minutes to repair completely.
I’d trust my helmet completely but it along with nearly a dozen others has expired same with the suit and seatbelts. Could I get hurt or worse in them? Absolutely but there is no guarantees that even with the newest best equipment I won’t be hurt or worse. How new or expensive the safety equipment is doesn’t mean much except profit to the companies that sell it.
Now maybe they need those additional sales to be a viable business. Fair enough.
As for racing what you build? I was forced to accept a “professional builders extension of my rollbar the lopsided poor welds piece of dog dung he did passed tech but not anywhere near my standards.
There are vintage race cars out there I’ve built. The De Mar, a Lotus 11 LeMans, the Black Jack Special, A Devin special. An XK-E V12 roadster, Plus 3 vintage MG T series cars I’ve restored and race prepared. The first 4 had tool room copies made of their original frames. Except the were made with Chrome moly steel and stacked dimes welds. I also did new bodies for them (Except the Lotus 11 which had a new Aluminium body rolled on an English wheel) by taking molds from the originals (after they were repaired) and either did hand layups of fiberglass cloth or carbon fiber.
In reply to NOT A TA : carpet on a race car?
frenchyd said:In reply to NOT A TA : carpet on a race car?
Carpet on a Pro-Touring car, which is different than a race car. They usually have air conditioning and a good radio, one not for talking to the pit crew
In reply to twentyover :
The trade off between a fire suppression system and carpeting etc vs bare metal and a fire extinguisher isn’t very big.
I had a Chevy Blazer that burn’t to the ground. Melted the rims into puddles of aluminum. When the fuel injection caught fire my wife and family got out safely but it still was scary. Back in the 80’s and 90’s it was happening so often they called them Car-B-Ques
MY point is fire can happen BUT if panic can be controlled seldom results in injuries or worse. So is it panic or the fire that kills?
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