DD Trackday Star

turtl631 wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

noddaz wrote: NB Miata with a SR20DET...

I see people suggesting this swap everywhere, and i have to say... it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me from either a financial or power standpoint. Can somebody explain this?

Cause low-hp overhyped JDM yo?

Relatively light and readily available parts, makes 350whp or so all day on pump gas with bigger turbo on stock exhaust mani, cams, injectors, and tune. This board seems to not like RWD SR20s for some reason? I don't get it. The swap into a Miata seems like more time and money than its worth however...like all Miata swaps really. You get into S2K, Boxster, Z3M money too easily by the time you get a new engine into a miata.

I don't HATE the motor itself, even though i personally think the KA24DE is a superior motor in almost every way...

I'm just saying that the swap makes absolutely no sense in a miata in particular, as you say yourself.

AtticusTurbo27 wrote: wouldn't start and we pulled a chewed up spark plug out of one of the banks.

I do trust you know an S2000 only has one bank........as its not a vee pattern engine

I bet it had an LS1.

Dear Javelin,

I chose to ignore your dramatic diva exit but since you are back and contributing to the noise to signal ratio with your valuable electrons, lets clear some things up.

First and foremost, this is pure bench racing, equivalent to guys shootin sh*t over some beers, so no point in getting all offended, which you clearly did for some reason.

Now, "How can this buffoon possibly not understand the brilliance of my idea?!" I want a reliable and fun to drive 10k car that I can outfit with 10k to my needs. Having driven most of the cars mentioned in the thread I have a good idea of what I want but that is still a tossup between a handful of cars, you on the other hand have apparently decided that I want a miata, so thanks for that. Now we have both driven a Boxster in anger, I was dissapointed with my experience, you were not. As stated earlier, I am the biggest porsche fanboy I know and have enough porsche literature to bury someone.

Why would I want a bottom barrel boxster that I was not impressed with over a top of the market NB sport? Quoted as telepathic steering: sure as hell felt no better to me than a miata, and certainly no where near an s2k. The boxster, a well known car to have a good chance of having RMS and other issues that can easily lead to a catastrophic failure, with many cars off the road before 100k miles? Not to mention a 996 interior that can't handle 60k of DD duty before looking like a 200k interior? On top of that, the consumables cost come with the porsche tax, which means probably 3x the cost vs the miata or 2x the cost vs s2k/e36..etc. Oh yeah, because its "faster" in raw speed, which again, I dont give a damn about. If I want something faster in "raw speed" that is higher mileage, both the e36 M3 and S2k are better known quantities on track that would prove better, for ME, @ 10k. Hell I could probably find an m3 for 15k all in with everything I would want for it.

Ok so lets say I want to slide around the track on a cushy, leather stock seat (which I dont) and spend 15k on the car and just get some wheels, tires and pads. Why the hell would I go with a Boxster S over an S2000 again? S2000 will be just as fast, a better track car, more fun to drive, the motor will last longer, cheaper to maintain, if anything goes it will cost at most 1/2 as much to replace. It probably makes for a slightly worse DD, which is a compromise I am willing to make.

So enough tears, it was a good suggestion but not for me. Ok?

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

turtl631 wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

noddaz wrote: NB Miata with a SR20DET...

I see people suggesting this swap everywhere, and i have to say... it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me from either a financial or power standpoint. Can somebody explain this?

Cause low-hp overhyped JDM yo?

Relatively light and readily available parts, makes 350whp or so all day on pump gas with bigger turbo on stock exhaust mani, cams, injectors, and tune. This board seems to not like RWD SR20s for some reason? I don't get it. The swap into a Miata seems like more time and money than its worth however...like all Miata swaps really. You get into S2K, Boxster, Z3M money too easily by the time you get a new engine into a miata.

I don't HATE the motor itself, even though i personally think the KA24DE is a superior motor in almost every way... I'm just saying that the swap makes absolutely no sense in a miata in particular, as you say yourself.

I personally know the KA24DE is a superior engine in every way that matters.

clutchsmoke wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

turtl631 wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

noddaz wrote: NB Miata with a SR20DET...

I see people suggesting this swap everywhere, and i have to say... it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me from either a financial or power standpoint. Can somebody explain this?

Cause low-hp overhyped JDM yo?

Relatively light and readily available parts, makes 350whp or so all day on pump gas with bigger turbo on stock exhaust mani, cams, injectors, and tune. This board seems to not like RWD SR20s for some reason? I don't get it. The swap into a Miata seems like more time and money than its worth however...like all Miata swaps really. You get into S2K, Boxster, Z3M money too easily by the time you get a new engine into a miata.

I don't HATE the motor itself, even though i personally think the KA24DE is a superior motor in almost every way... I'm just saying that the swap makes absolutely no sense in a miata in particular, as you say yourself.

I personally know the KA24DE is a superior engine in every way that matters.

I was just going to say superior in every way, period... but then figured someone would erupt in tears over the weight difference.

rwdsport wrote:

Spoolpigeon wrote: I found my s2k for 7500, put $2k worth of shocks, front bar and wheels/tires on it and have beat the piss out of it all year long (15 autocrosses, 13 of those with a codriver, and a drivers school) with not a single problem. I think its certainly possible to make one work under your 20k budget.

Mileage? Feel free to pm me your details, I have seen a couple under 10k, but we are talking 120k miles. Thats a bit too much considering I want to DD and track and have it like that for hopefully 5 years. Sure. 102k miles, ripped top and a crease in the front bumper. Otherwise mechanically ok besides a basic tune up. The only other thing I've done to it is a valve adjustment. And celica is correct. Another friend of mine has a 2001 s2k with 222k miles and has only had oil changes, valve adjustments once a year, and a couple tune ups. Still running the stock clutch!

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I bet it had an LS1.

nah, odyssey engine.....

yamaha wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I bet it had an LS1.

nah, odyssy engine.....

Why does that sound AWESOME?

So what happens when your dd / track beast drops a valve ? Do you have a backup or are you stuck ?

When I was dd my only car / toy I never gave it all too afraid I wouldn't have wheels the next day.

I wouldn't be afraid of a well kept high mileage S2k, although I highly doubt anyone could find one for $7500 right now that is worth buying. I have 98k on mine, bought with 82k, and have done essentially nothing but tires, brakes and fluids (big front bar, still on the original shocks). It's a part time summer DD and sees about 20-25 autocross days each year. It feels like it's barely broken in, aside from the shocks finally starting to show their age (they're getting replaced soon). I haven't done the math but I am certain it has been the cheapest vehicle to own per-mile that I have ever had, probably by half factoring in the (lack of) depreciation.

That said I don't think I'd ever want to track my only car. Am I missing something, is there some reason you can't just get a 150k mile S2k for trackdays and spend the 2-3k you saved on an old civic to drive to work?

Spoolpigeon wrote:

rwdsport wrote:

Spoolpigeon wrote: I found my s2k for 7500, put $2k worth of shocks, front bar and wheels/tires on it and have beat the piss out of it all year long (15 autocrosses, 13 of those with a codriver, and a drivers school) with not a single problem. I think its certainly possible to make one work under your 20k budget.

Mileage? Feel free to pm me your details, I have seen a couple under 10k, but we are talking 120k miles. Thats a bit too much considering I want to DD and track and have it like that for hopefully 5 years. Sure. 102k miles, ripped top and a crease in the front bumper. Otherwise mechanically ok besides a basic tune up. The only other thing I've done to it is a valve adjustment. And celica is correct. Another friend of mine has a 2001 s2k with 222k miles and has only had oil changes, valve adjustments once a year, and a couple tune ups. Still running the stock clutch!

In reply to rwdsport:

Well if you're done slinging insults and shouting opinions as facts, I'll gladly keep bench racing over a beer.

You drove a base Boxster. I have driven that and an S. I'm suggesting an S, which has a larger, more powerful motor, a better gearbox, a better suspension, better brakes, and a better interior than the car you were in, full stop. It's like damning all Miatas based on an NA 1.6/open diff car when everybody is saying an NB Sport is the answer. They are completely different cars with that one letter.

The RMS/IMS issues are extremely over-blown, and 90% of the cars that had that issue have been fixed by now, not to mention it was mainly concentrated on the early 996 911's and the 2.5 Boxster. The S never even really had those issues.

You say consumables tax but never actually looked up parts or asked around. We have multiple people in our club with both a Miata and a Boxster, and many of them claim it's a wash. The Boxster's tires may be more money, but the Miatas always end up needing additional work over a season (usually radiators). In my own experience, parts for a Porsche 944 were cheaper on average (and cheaper to maintain) than my 1.6 Miata was, and I was someone that used to rail against Porsche costs when I had an RX-7. If you don't look up the actual prices, you're ASSuming.

You already said you were replacing seats, and a Boxster is still well enough under your $20K spot to allow mods, so why can't you put seats in that?

What I'm trying to say is, you're already imagining a $10K Miata with $10K of mods being the best thing since sliced bread (the S2K), but you completely dismiss a Boxster based on it's "stockness", when you can easily have a $15K Boxster S and $5K in mods (seats, hardtop, wheels/tires, brakes) that would smoke the Miata on a road course and be a better street car.

And there's still plenty of other options, too, like Bob's C4 Corvette (which will annihilate both the Miata and the Porsche), the RX-8, a pre-swapped RX-7, or an MR-S.

Thanks for being civil in your electron exchanges.

There's an mrs with a 2zz swap for sale for $8500 that looks to be in good shape.

mw wrote: There's an mrs with a 2zz swap for sale for $8500 that looks to be in good shape.

HNNNNNGGGGGGGGG.

OP buy my MSM, it's set to go for the most part. You'd want to upgrade the radiator/fans and get a real oil catch can on it.

I want that MR-S.

As for an S2000, I just found this one on the SCCA forums.

http://www.sccaforums.com/forums/forumid/63/threadid/438245/scope/posts

After long debate I've decided to sell my STR prepped S2000. My interests are changing so here is a chance for someone to buy a completely setup, well sorted S2000. The car has a tour trophy, divisional win, and some local PAX FTDs.

2001 Honda S2000 Silverstone 73k

I purchased the car bone stock about a year ago with 68k, all parts listed below were added since then. I have all stock parts and they will go with the car.

Suspension

Koni sports converted to DA, revalved for 900#/750# springs

Nascar style ("Gendron") FSB and spherical end links

MX5 RSB

SPC offset upper ball joints

Wheels

17x9 TR C3 Black with 255/40/17 Star Specs plenty of life left

17x9 TR C3 Black with 255/40/17 R-S3’s,more or less brand new ~10 autox runs

AP2v2 wheels with great condition all season tires

Engine/power

FIPK intake

PLM header

Berk 70mm HFC

Nvidia 70mm catback

Stock exhaust with removable rear section

Greddy EMU dyno tuned, VTEC lowered to 4k

Wideband

Compression tested @240 across all 4 cylinders

All fluids changed/bled.

Synthetic oil 3k miles.

The bad

Rear bumper has some paint missing on left rear

Carfax shows one accident. The right front fender is missing a VIN tag.

Plastic window is cracked.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8435/77...

Located in CT/NY area.

$15,700

I've only read a few pages of this, but has anyone mentioned a ls swapped FD yet? A nice one is getting near your 20k budget. But a not so nice one that needs seats might be in the low/mid teens. Fast? Yep. Handles like its on rails? If its anything like my old one, yeah. Will come around on you in a moment if you get stupid? Yep.

I was recently drooling over a single turbo FD someone was selling local, when someone pointed out to me that you can often find swapped cars for less $$. I've gotta admit, FD handling without rotary upkeep/fragility makes me giggle. I miss mine, but at the same time 3motors in a year is a bit much. (20 and had no clue how to keep a rotary happy. Also before the days of the internet.)

S2 RX8 can be had for the same or less than S2K money and durability/longevity is all in the owner so take your time if you are to look at one.

Z3/4 is another good choice as well as a later MR2 (if you can get over the styling)

Though you have to get over this weight issue, hate to say it but unless you have been to nationals 8 years in a row you are likely not to be competitive as much as you think and just need to learn until you get to that bridge.

Teh E36 M3 wrote: 930 911? Does Wallens have input on this?

Unless you're extremely lucky or buy a total heap, you can't get a 930 for the sort of money the OP is mentioning. I'm also not convinced that a widow maker 911 turbo would make a good DE car unless you like changing your underpants after every session. Or if one is a driving god, which the OP may have forgotten to mention.

A 911 SC or a pre-G50 Carrera 3.2 is doable for the sort of money the OP mentioned but there won't be much left for mods. Or consumables. And 911 parts are expensive.

Javelin wrote: You say this and then *don't* want a Porsche?!? The Boxster's steering has been called telepathic and the handling scalpel-sharp, even bone stock. It's also larger and safer than a Miata for track safety.

I know you really like the Boxster S and people on here know I like Porsches, too, but based on my admittedly fairly small sample of a stock Boxster S that I nearly bought, I have to write a somewhat dissenting opinion here.

I didn't think that the steering feel was that great (I would say my Carrera 3.2 provided noticeably better feedback) and while the handling was pretty good, scalpel-like it is only in comparison with a dull butter knife. Scalpel-like to me is how my Elise S1 felt.

I was going to second the RX8 idea. If you're tracking the car... the maintenance differential between that and any other car is going to be pretty minimal. From everything I've heard, RX8s like Italian tune-ups... I redline it at least twice a day to keep the mechanic away.

I've only had mine for a year, so I can't really comment on its longevity, but I got one with 90k on the odometer, and I'm not having any engine problems. I do have to do some routine maintenance that's typical of 100k stuff, but nothing that gives me pause.

Spinout007 wrote: I've only read a few pages of this, but has anyone mentioned a ls swapped FD yet? A nice one is getting near your 20k budget. But a not so nice one that needs seats might be in the low/mid teens. Fast? Yep. Handles like its on rails? If its anything like my old one, yeah. Will come around on you in a moment if you get stupid? Yep. I was recently drooling over a single turbo FD someone was selling local, when someone pointed out to me that you can often find swapped cars for less $$. I've gotta admit, FD handling without rotary upkeep/fragility makes me giggle. I miss mine, but at the same time 3motors in a year is a bit much. (20 and had no clue how to keep a rotary happy. Also before the days of the internet.)

That's an interesting idea. 3rd gen RX-7s are consistently available on norotors.com for less than $20k. Certainly a gorgeous car made better through huge HP gains. Depending on the level of sophistication with the swap, all the creature comforts are intact. A/C, power steering, etc.

Another option would be a 2nd gen RX-7 with a V8 swap. Those are routinely available for less than $10k. I know you've mentioned that 2 cars don't make sense in your world, but, if you could figure out a way to keep 2 cars happily, you could have a killer track car and a very nice DD.

dyintorace wrote: Located in CT/NY area. $15,700

Damn... I wish I was in the market and had room for another car. That car sounds perfect for my auto-x desires...

yamaha wrote:

AtticusTurbo27 wrote: wouldn't start and we pulled a chewed up spark plug out of one of the banks.

I do trust you know an S2000 only has one bank........as its not a vee pattern engine

Touché

I dive a wrx which has banks and just wasn't thinking. I meant cylinder.

dyintorace wrote: As for an S2000, I just found this one on the SCCA forums. http://www.sccaforums.com/forums/forumid/63/threadid/438245/scope/posts After long debate I've decided to sell my STR prepped S2000. My interests are changing so here is a chance for someone to buy a completely setup, well sorted S2000. The car has a tour trophy, divisional win, and some local PAX FTDs. 2001 Honda S2000 Silverstone 73k I purchased the car bone stock about a year ago with 68k, all parts listed below were added since then. I have all stock parts and they will go with the car. Suspension Koni sports converted to DA, revalved for 900#/750# springs Nascar style ("Gendron") FSB and spherical end links MX5 RSB SPC offset upper ball joints Wheels 17x9 TR C3 Black with 255/40/17 Star Specs plenty of life left 17x9 TR C3 Black with 255/40/17 R-S3’s,more or less brand new ~10 autox runs AP2v2 wheels with great condition all season tires Engine/power FIPK intake PLM header Berk 70mm HFC Nvidia 70mm catback Stock exhaust with removable rear section Greddy EMU dyno tuned, VTEC lowered to 4k Wideband Compression tested @240 across all 4 cylinders All fluids changed/bled. Synthetic oil 3k miles. The bad Rear bumper has some paint missing on left rear Carfax shows one accident. The right front fender is missing a VIN tag. Plastic window is cracked. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8435/77... Located in CT/NY area. $15,700

This is my car. As crazy as it sounds, I think I might actually prefer underpowered cars, so the S is up for sale and I'm looking for something else.

I think it's totally different track day vs autocross. In my case I think I am leaning autocross with occasional (couple a year?) track day so I am not as concerned with power and getting out of the way of faster folk. I enjoy the intensity that autocross gives but the BMWCCA and Porsche events are longer/faster tracks than most the local SCCA stuff