DD/Family Hauler - TSX, TL, IS300 or(?)

Looking for something a little more comfortable for a guy with a bad back to drive 80 miles a day than the old Integra. Also needs to be something a little larger to accommodate baby and mama occasionally.

Must haves:

Manual Trans.

4 seats.

~30mpg highway. A little less is okay.

Comfortable.

Dead-nuts reliable. I need to get to work every day.

Relatively easy and cheap to work on.

Not a total pig in a straight line, reasonably fun in corners, but for this particular car, I'd probably prefer the ability to run a 14 secondish 1/4 mile over a "Fun in the twisties but mid 16 second 1/4," all other things being equal.

Nice to haves:

Styling.

Leather seats - preferably heated. Again, think big guy with bad back.

Budget: $12k is pretty much the max.

I've driven the TSX and LOVE it, but for the same money, I really like the looks of the TL. I realize there will probably be some handling and FE compromises there, and honestly, I'd rather have a Honda that's assembled in Japan than in the US. Haven't driven one yet, interested in you guys' opinion.

I also still need to drive a 1st gen. IS300, though again, I'm guessing there will be a pretty significant drop in FE compared to the TSX.

Thoughts?

IIRC an IS300 gets rotary mileage, give or take a couple of mpg.

It also has a very small back seat

Wow... of those three options? TSX. Lowest mileage with the most complete service history possible. TL's have way too many "issues" with little crap driving you nuts.

Mazda6 immediately jumped to mind. Not the Speed, just the regular V6/5-Speed version. The seat heaters and interior in those were very nice, highway mileage is great, and they are good in the twisties. A buddy of mine has had an 05/06 one since 09 that's exactly your spec. It's only needed gas, tires, oil, and one brake job. I've driven it a few times, great car.

The masochist in me wants to say you didn't say 4-door, so buy an 04 GTO!

Find yourself an E36 M3 4 door with the manual trans. They are a bit hard to find, but would tick all of your boxes and be MUCH more fun to drive than a TSX or IS300. They also get 25-27mph, and can do the 1/4 mile in about 14 seconds.

The problems are known (and fixable), and the aftermarket is huge.

If you are stuck on Japanese, a 5spd Maxima isn't a bad choice, and plentiful.

Bobzilla wrote: TL's have way too many "issues" with little crap driving you nuts.

What is wrong with the TL (other then the automatics)?

I would suggest an X300 XJ6 except for the fuel mileage and manual requirement. Maxima or Mazda6 would be other possibilities.

I always found the backseats of the E36 to be short on legroom.

I would suggest a Volvo 850 or S70.. some of the most comfortible seats in the world.. and can get into the high 20s for MPG

I can only speak to the IS since I'm on my 2nd one and about 12 years of ownership total. Bought my 02 a year before my son was born almost to the day. Also, I have lower back problems (pretty severe for awhile, better now.) Both of mine were auto (I know, I know.)

For baby duty... not great, safety and latches, yes, space, no; backseats don't fold down, trunk is small where a stroller will pretty much eat up all usable space. Fuel economy, you're closer to high teens and low 20s.

2001 IS came in auto only. Had alcantara and leather, heated seats were available as an option. Even some cloth models out there.

2002+ All leather, piping or no piping, heated seats available.

Lexus leather isn't the best, even with care doesn't seem to hold up like the Mercedes and BMWs I've seen in junkyards.

Parts, well depends on what your point of reference is. Plenty of Lexus dealers on the forums offering discounted pricing. Can also buy OEM parts without the Toyota box for cheaper in some cases. Engine is interference so timing belt and water pump should be done on time. Oil filter is in a less than convenient place but still serviceable. Upper control arms are supposed to be replaced as a whole when the upper ball joint goes, some aftermarket arms and press in joints available.

Straight line, not bad. Intake and exhaust wake the car up nicely. Engine sounds awesome.

Styling, love the styling. Even after 12 years of ownership I still love the way it looks.

80 miles a day... I've driven to LA and San Diego (1.5 and 3+ hours each way) without feeling fatigued or sore. Smooth car, quiet and comfy. Seats won't grip you too well in spirited driving though. Big guy? Again point of reference? I'm 5'8 but weigh 205-210.

Main complaints quality wise would be melting dash (they coated in some teflon rubber stuff that dissolves in heat over the years) and a crappy cd changer design that will break.

The Volvo 850 / S70 is not going to touch 30mpg. Mine has been averaging 23mpg mixed. Lonnnnng highway trips and I can touch 26-27mpg. I would say it's more comfortable than a TSX but it's not going to be in the same class refinement and economy and reliability wise.

The IS300 would be fun but is a low 15 second car, not a 14 second car. It's 2JZ powered so it's smooth and has almost unlimited hop-up potential. But you're not going to get anywhere near 30mpg with one. My wife's GS300 (same engine but automatic tranny) touches 27mpg on long highway trips but averages closer to 24 mixed. The IS300 gets worse mileage than the GS300 - probably due to gearing. The EPA rating for the IS300 was 18 city and 23 highway. Woof!!

93EXCivic wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: TL's have way too many "issues" with little crap driving you nuts.

What is wrong with the TL (other then the automatics)? I would suggest an X300 XJ6 except for the fuel mileage and manual requirement. Maxima or Mazda6 would be other possibilities.

Here's the short list:

Interior rattles from hell. Radio/navi units that take a crap whenever wherever. terrible fit/finish on the interior dash. Cramped driver's footwell. eats tires if not aligned often, especially rears if you carry people. interior lights that are always out. 2nd gear on the manuals. Brembo brakes ($$$) (all manual TL's will have Brembo's installed)

They're nice cars, and they will run a long time but they are DEFINATELY a US built Honda and it shows. If you drive in inclement weather, expect to replace wheels, control arms and, if the pothole is large enough, front aluminum subframe.

I owned an IS300 for a while; the former comments are spot on. It's a joy to drive and it handles wonderfully, but the back seats and trunk are pretty small, mileage is terrible, the interiors don't hold up well (and I always found the front seats hard on the lower back but YMMV), and they are not as quick as they seem. The lack of folding back seats will keep me from having another.

With E46s getting real close to the $5k mark, that is where I am now shopping.

We looked at the set you listed, plus the G35, and chose E46.

OH yeah G35 would also be a possible choice. No clue about MPGs though.

BMW E46 330i would be a good fit - 21 city, 30 highway, 1/4 mile in the high 14's, widely available with a stick. Seems like a solid car. I've never owned a BMW but that might be my next DD in a year or so.

TSX. Here's one somewhat close with the 6-spd: http://nwga.craigslist.org/cto/3531426381.html

+1 for E36/E46, or Mazda6 on the cheaper end of the spectrum for new cars. You've chosen three cars that make gas mysteriously disappear.

I had a TL-S and it was fantastic! I put 100k on it (120k total) and never had even one problem with it. And with just me in the car cruising at 70mph with the a/c on , it routinely got 31mpg. I'd highly recommend it. Obviously, I had none of the issues that Bob stated, but that's just my car, and it didn't have Nav.
I think a TSX would be a good option also, but gives up a lot in power and comfort compared to the TL and isn't much more efficient. I know people here love Bimmers, but everyone I've known with one has had way more problems than I ever had with any of my Hondas.

Huh. E46 330i is an interesting option. Is my fear of putting 80 miles a day on a 100k+ mile BMW irrational? I love the looks, and it seems as though the interior would be leaps and bounds nicer than the TSX.

If you are shopping for a 330i, look for the ZHP version. It's sort of like an E46 M3 without the hot engine. Very nice machines. I would't think twice about putting 80+ miles on one a day. Like any higher-mileage car you will have an issue here and there, but the drivetrains are pretty bulletproof.

Just to throw in a wrench...

If I was in the market, and could get the price where I wanted it, this car looks like the one to buy:

http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/3542713257.html

5-speed, LSD, aftermarket exhaust (with factory exhaust included), nice looking car. The miles on it aren't unreasonable either. (116k miles)

A CTS-V is playing in another price range, both in purchase and fuel and maintenance cost.

http://akroncanton.craigslist.org/cto/3540789869.html

Here is a link to compare specs between the TSX, IS300 and TL: http://autos.msn.com/research/compare/interior.aspx?c=0&i=0&tb=0&ph1=t0&ph2=t0&dt=0&v=t94584&v=t102397&v=t100215

Man, the rear legroom in the IS300 stinks. For comparison, a 2004 Civic sedan has 6 inches more

Hitch a ride down for the Rolex 24 hour race. Drink late into the night with me rob and Joe then drive home in this.

http://orlando.craigslist.org/ctd/3464855350.html

Sorry the Doctor won't be available to wreck the scooter into Aussie's trailer like at the Mitty.