Depreciation Kings that get a Bad Rap

TED_fiestaHP wrote: Lotus any lotus, how can you go wrong.... Turbo esprit ? It was good enough for James Bond.

Oddly enough, a friend of mine just did a fly and drive to pick up a turbo Esprit because, well, okay, TURBO ESPRIT. But also a good friend of ours egged him on to buy it because they're pretty much the last of the 80s hypercars that haven't started appreciating at a silly rate, so if there ever was a time to buy the time is NOW NOW NOW.

I'm also impressed that he did a fly and drive to the SE US and made it back in a 30 year old British exotic without issue.

dj06482 wrote: Cadillac sedans depreciate like crazy, as well. The ATS (non-V) is a great example. EDIT: Volvos and Saabs depreciate like crazy, as well.

Depreciating for no good reason is part of why I've been so enamored of the S60R as of late. It's almost the same size as the car I have now, but has twice the power, twice the towing capacity, twice the drive wheels, and you can find them with ease for $5-7k. 3500lb 300hp AWD car with giant Brembos? It's like an Evo X, only it feels like a grown-up's car inside, and being inexpensive is just a bonus!

I didn't know that about the ATS. Those look neat to me, but I'm not a fan of the turbo Ecotec. Part of me wonders how much of the horrible drivability can be tweaked out with HP Tuners.

fanfoy wrote: S80 V8. Same platform as the Taurus SHO but with the final development of the lovely Yamaha V8. AWD, nice to drive and a total sleeper. Can be had for between 6K to 10K in GREAT shape.

But, but, but... turbo noises!

Okay fine, I will add these to my "40th birthday present" list.

(40th birthday is next March. I finally got that Significant Raise that I had been anticipating for a while, and all of those credit cards I've been dreaming off of are going down at a phenomenal rate. I figure by March, I may be able to buy a $7k car with cash...)

Knurled wrote: Hyundai is never the answer to anything unless you like bleeding money in order to prop up crappy-feeling hardware. I've never driven a Hyundai that felt any good, and I've had the chance to drive a new Genesis Coupe with the Brembo package. I'll take a 200k mile Audi over a new Hyundai, fit and finish wise, anyday!

Here's the problem with your statement. Most Audi's won't make it to 200k, at least not without being "grandpas' hammer". Hyundai is like Honda. You can beat the E36 M3 out the them and they'll keep running. Hyundai fit and finish is just fine, quite good actually. The only knock I have...being a multi Hyundai/Kia owner...is the plastics feel cheap. But not sure that's the case with the Equus/Genesis. I plan to check it out soon.

In reply to Klayfish:

Not that I've seen. Most Audis that I see are easily capable of 300k+ with minimal maintenance unless a traffic accident takes them out first. I have standing orders with a customer to buy her 1.8t A4 when she gets tired enough of it to trade it in, and she passed 200k a long time ago and she still sees no reason to get something newer.

Audis don't rust, the engines last forever if you ignore the VWAG oil change intervals and change the oil every 5k with synthetic, the transmissions are good if you swap out the ZF nonsense fluid for a good synthetic Dexron VI, and I'm convinced that the suspension "issues" are entirely due to poor diagnosis and even more poor installation, since I've had customers with close to 350k on original front control arms that still had tight ball joints and bushings.

But do go on, opinions like yours help force the kind of ridiculous depreciation that allows po' boys like me to afford nearly new executive-class cars.

I want to live where you guys buy used cars. $6000 here gets you a 100k-mile S40 with deferred maintenance and minor body issues.

Klayfish wrote:

Knurled wrote: Hyundai is never the answer to anything unless you like bleeding money in order to prop up crappy-feeling hardware. I've never driven a Hyundai that felt any good, and I've had the chance to drive a new Genesis Coupe with the Brembo package. I'll take a 200k mile Audi over a new Hyundai, fit and finish wise, anyday!

Here's the problem with your statement. Most Audi's won't make it to 200k, at least not without being "grandpas' hammer". Hyundai is like Honda. You can beat the E36 M3 out the them and they'll keep running. Hyundai fit and finish is just fine, quite good actually. The only knock I have...being a multi Hyundai/Kia owner...is the plastics feel cheap. But not sure that's the case with the Equus/Genesis. I plan to check it out soon.

With that logic, you're saying VW's can't make it to 200k either?

yupididit wrote:

Klayfish wrote:

Knurled wrote: Hyundai is never the answer to anything unless you like bleeding money in order to prop up crappy-feeling hardware. I've never driven a Hyundai that felt any good, and I've had the chance to drive a new Genesis Coupe with the Brembo package. I'll take a 200k mile Audi over a new Hyundai, fit and finish wise, anyday!

Here's the problem with your statement. Most Audi's won't make it to 200k, at least not without being "grandpas' hammer". Hyundai is like Honda. You can beat the E36 M3 out the them and they'll keep running. Hyundai fit and finish is just fine, quite good actually. The only knock I have...being a multi Hyundai/Kia owner...is the plastics feel cheap. But not sure that's the case with the Equus/Genesis. I plan to check it out soon.

With that logic, you're saying VW's can't make it to 200k either?

Each to their own, but the words "reliable" and "VAG" are mutually exclusive in my book. If you like them, fantastic. I think Audi makes some nice looking cars, but if it's on my dime, no thanks. As for VW...I don't like much of anything about them...looks, interior, etc...just not my cup of tea.

You liking them doesnt affect if they can make it to 200k miles or not. I didn't state anything about liking them in my question.

Just silly that you think one of the biggest car manufacturers can't make a car that'll go 200k miles.

In reply to yupididit:

It's my opinion that if a modern car doesn't make it to 200k, it is because the owner killed it. This includes alleged "anvils" like Hondas and Toyotas. I'm seeing more and more Honda K24s that are eating the timing chains, in the same mileage or less than a timing belt service would be due, for example, and I've replaced a few Toyota engines because operators forget that they have to open the hood and check the oil every now and then, especially with the oil-burning prone 1ZZ engine.

Teh Volvo has 245k on it. To the best of my knowledge, it still has the original trans fluid in it. (Oops) And tell a DSM owner that a Mitsubishi turbo can have a quarter million miles on it and not smoke, they won't believe you...

My dad has a 275k mile Diamante that doesn't smoke. It did finally wear out a thrust control surface on the rear cam, though. Never seen that one on a modern engine before..

Think all my dsm's on stock turbos smoked lol. They were mostly old and abused though.

Knurled wrote:

CobraSpdRH wrote: So, I'm curious, what do we see as cars that have depreciated like a rock but maybe not by any fault of their own? While a $15k Audi S6 with the Lambo-derived V10 may not be the best idea, maybe a $15k Genesis 5.0 R-Spec is?

Lambo-derived? Huh? It's two Jetta engines joined at the crank. The S6 doesn't have a Lambo engine, the Lambo has a VW economy car engine. Does sound nice though. And way more pocketbook-friendly than the twin turbo V6.

I may regret asking this but what are the issues that the V10 S6 have as they age?

yupididit wrote: You liking them doesnt affect if they can make it to 200k miles or not. I didn't state anything about liking them in my question. Just silly that you think one of the biggest car manufacturers can't make a car that'll go 200k miles.

I don't recall saying that my liking them or not had any effect on their ability to make it 200k miles. Nor do I recall saying they can't make it 200k. The analogy I used is "grandpa's hammer". That was a tongue in cheek joke, which apparently was lost, but the concept isn't a joke. They'll get to 200k, but chances are they're going to need a lot more work to get there than a Honda/Toyota/Hyundai/Kia.

I agree, personal opinion is personal opinion and it has zero impact on reliability. Toyota doesn't really build a lot of cars that excite me. The Camry is a total snoozefest and having owned a Prius, the driving experience was horrid. Not a fan of Toyotas for the most part. However, let's say I put the keys to a Prius and an A4 on a table. Both cars have 150k miles. I tell you that you must drive from Seattle to Miami, and if the car beaks down somewhere...or has any type of mechanical/electrical issue of some sort...you've got to walk the rest of the way. If you're going to pick the Audi, I hope you bring yourself some good running shoes...just in case.

In reply to Klayfish:

If I had to drive from Seattle to Miami, I'd probably rent a car. Or just fly.

150k is nothing on an A4. Caveat: If it's a vehicle that has been dealer maintained, I wouldn't touch the thing with a 10 foot pole, especially if it has the TFSI engine. Long OCIs kill those engines in ways that can't be fixed. (When the balance shaft bearings go bad, you replace the engine, they are not service parts)

Electronically, German cars got solid in the past ten years or so. That doesn't faze me one bit.

Likewise, I've seen enough reports of killed Toyota 1.8 hybrids because of water pump failure, that I'd steer clear of any Prius with the 1.8.

Interesting, my friend drove her 09 a4 from Tampa Bay to Long Beach with her two young children in it. It should have almost 200k on it by now.

If I had to pay for gas it be the prius. If I'm not paying gas then the a4. Which generations are we talking about?

I'd take the a4. I have no desire to even sit in a Prius again.

So if I were looking at said A4...is there a good shopping list to look for? It'd be a sedan or Wagon Quattro. Thinking of a 80-120K miles range as a bad weather driver to go along side of my miata.

In reply to dkm455:

Houston is full of those with deafeningly loud exhaust systems

Now I'm looking at A4 Quattros. Most seem to be in the third owner phase in my price range, though.

An A4 would be in Gstreet, against the Focus ST. Seems like a mismatch, there, too.