Disposable engines

Thought I'd get a thead going about engines that, as a rule, get thrown out and not rebuilt for various reasons. A few come to mind...

1. Rover V8. A lot of good cores out there.. but... just as many bad ones. Cracking behind the liners... liners that slip... cracking along the main webs.... Nice engines... but to build a reliable one, it takes a bit of searching.

2. Small block Chevy V8's displacing less than 305 cubes. Let's see, theres a 262, 268 and a 283. Other than for nostalgia reasons, not enough cubes to make it worthwhile. Costs just as much to do a 350.

3. 255 Ford V8. Ditto

4. Caddy Northstar DOHC V8. To get rebuilt just right, these things cost an arm and a leg. Cheaper to buy a new shortblock.

5. Caddy 4.5/4.9. Ditto.

6. Jag V12. I've seen a few of these in boneyards and thought "WOW! Wonder why nobody scarfed that one up?". Cost of rebuild parts.... that's why....

Any others?

Greg

Rotaries. Many disposed-of rotaries are rebuildable or have reusable components, but their owners don't understand or like rotaries, or both. From what I've heard, they are much easier to rebuild than piston engines owing to their simplicity and Lego-like construction.

How `bout the V8 engine Triumph built for the Stag because they couldn't get the Rover V8. It was two of their slanted fours mated together. Long single timing chains required replacement @ about 24K, and the heads warped like crazy (rough castings blocked the passages. There's a reason good Rover blocks are hard to find-they're all in Stags.

Toyota 20Rs - why build it when a 22R bolts right in?

Ford N/A 2.3Ls, and 200 I6s (they're all ripped out to make room for SBFs).

Chevy LT1s.

Nissan single-cam KA motors.

Any AMC less then the 360 (so 290, 304, and 343 then).

The AMC/Jeep 232 I-6 (why do it when a 258 and 4.0 will net you 282ci for less?)

12A rotary (the 13B's seem to get rebuilt, but the 12's never do)

Non-PI 4.6L SOHC Ford (it's cheaper to JY source a PI one or a 4V)

Buick 350 (find a 455 instead, it's the same size/weight)

+1 on the LT1

When they run, they run like a rapped ape, but have a sensor or the Opti-spark distributor go wonky, you'll eventually want to kill every living thing on your block.

I think I can add the early aluminum block BMW V8's in this group as well.

Greg

Chevy Vega. My Haynes Ranger/Mazda B Series manual says of the Duratec based 2.3 DOHC motor: 'these engines are not considered rebuildable ...'

Carter

I'd disagree with the NPI 4.6 - there's a LOT of guys who do a PI conversion of those motors, and supposedly the PI heads/cams/intake on the NPI shortblock makes for a better motor somehow. Maybe it ups the compression? I'm not really sure.

Or does that not count?

MGB motor. Seriously, it's almost impossible to give one away in fine running condition.

Keith wrote: MGB motor. Seriously, it's almost impossible to give one away in fine running condition.

Maybe because just using those words referring to that engine is usually complete bullE36 M3?

Greg55_99 wrote: 2. Small block Chevy V8's displacing less than 305 cubes.

Yeah, 'cause that Z-28 302 sucked pretty hard.

ReverendDexter wrote: Toyota 20Rs - why build it when a 22R bolts right in?

20R flows better, you can put the head on a 22R but it's a bugger to keep the EFI.

P71 wrote: Buick 350 (find a 455 instead, it's the same size/weight)

No, it's not, they're different animals entirely.

The 350 is the biggest Buick smallblock, it's based on the 215.

The 455 is the biggest Buick bigblock, based on the 400.

Disposable engines?

I'd say 2-bolt main Chevy 350's, 400's Big blocks under 396 cubes

2.8L Chevy sixes

Iron Duke

Shawn

Trans_Maro wrote:

ReverendDexter wrote: Toyota 20Rs - why build it when a 22R bolts right in?

20R flows better, you can put the head on a 22R but it's a bugger to keep the EFI.

Yeah, but is that rebuilding the 20R or swapping it with a 22R? FWIW, this is the path I'm going, as California Smogotistas won't notice the different block under my stock everything else and CARB-approved carburetor.

Trans_Maro wrote: < Yeah, 'cause that Z-28 302 sucked pretty hard.

Homalogation freaks don't count.

Besides, the 283 was not a throw away motor. That mill was the shiznit in the late 50s. Ask any old hotrodder. Apply how we feel about LS-1s to the 283. That's how it felt back then.

BMC A series 850cc as fitted to original Minis....Nobody wants one. People seem to mostly want the 'big block' of the mini world a 1275 cc. People who want to stay with a small bore engine want a 997 or 998 cc engine.

Not a lot of love lost on the Triumph 1500. But as I say that I am trying to finish a rebuild on one.

Greg55_99 wrote: I think I can add the early aluminum block BMW V8's in this group as well. Greg

I'd also add the eta motors for the most part. The 'i's were so much more fun and while I've seen a few turbo eta's with i heads, its alot of work for a chassis not built for that much torque.

Most other BMW engines are works of art. (granted the original Nikisil lined ones mentioned above was a small black mark in BMW's history)

The 262 Chevy small block was a terrible engine, the rest of the small displacement ones arent that bad, but yea, 350s are cheaper usually. I would say the Taurus SHO motor would go on the last, becasue as far as I know rebuild arent arent available anymore.

Iron Duke wins this one. Generally speaking, they never need to be rebuilt. They last forever. And if they do ever crap out, it's guaranteed that whatever crappy low-end GM product they're in is not worth the expense and hassle of rebuilding the engine. Remember the old saying, "GM cars will run poorly longer than most cars run at all."

the ford 4.2l v6. i inquired about a timing chain replacement for mine at the dealer, since it had over 140,000 miles on it. service writer says "i talked to the mechanic and he said we don't replace the TC on those, they usually don't make it past 150k and we just replace the whole thing then." it was sold in fine running shape with 155k on it and as far as i know is still running to this day.

Camry 2.2 litre 5sfe. Why even bother? Grab another shortblock from the junkyard, insert, and drive another 200k miles.

Or for the price of a rebuild, replace with 3sgte.

I always thought I'd get back into rotaries if I had space to gather to a few extra engine. While the apex seals aren't exactly cheap, for $500 you had pretty the most important part of engine, everything else is pretty stout. No need for aftermarket pistons or rods because there aren't any. As far as porting goes, that's part the rotor housing isn't it? I don't know enough about rotaries to gauge that.

I'd say the ideal motor would be one that is very common, has a good deal of aftermarket support, and when something fails, it doesn't destroy other expensive modifications (ie fancy flowing heads)

3.4L Ford SHO V-8's after the cam sprocket breaks. Usually the whole car is thrown away as nobody can afford to fix'em

Ford 2.3T, easily costs more to rebuild than to just get another good used bottom end, especially if the rods/pistons/rings go when someone poured on the boost w/o pouring on the gas...

PHeller wrote: I always thought I'd get back into rotaries if I had space to gather to a few extra engine. While the apex seals aren't exactly cheap, for $500 you had pretty the most important part of engine, everything else is pretty stout. No need for aftermarket pistons or rods because there aren't any. As far as porting goes, that's part the rotor housing isn't it? I don't know enough about rotaries to gauge that.

Yes, porting is done on the rotary housings. Here's an overview of different porting options (note: mild porting is also called street porting):

http://www.mazdarotary.net/porting.htm