Do I want a TJ/LJ (Wrangler) or a 7.3 PSD?

Had to sell my 60k mile XJ Up-Country due to a tuition payment I was far behind on last summer. Luckily, I got a career-type job last fall, and am now in the market for a replacement. DD'ing a POS 96 Neon just isn't cutting it.

I also commute ~40 miles per day for work. I am reimbursed mileage on my travels while out in the field. I'd like to stay in the low to mid 20s for MPG. My car currently gets 28-32 depending on how I drive it.

I am fortunate that my new job gives me a lot of vacation time and all holidays off with pay. I spend my weekends camping in northern Michigan, Road-tripping back to Western PA, etc. Also do some dirtbike riding, fishing, hunting, etc. Pretty outdoorsy when I have the time.

Anywho, I am looking for a replacement. I initially considered another XJ, but I'd like something a bit newer. I have to visit with clients and such for work, so I am looking for something a little more in tune with how I spend my spare time. My January trip to Sault Ste. Marie in a Neon with 16" of snow down really made me realize it's time for a new vehicle.

I've broken it down to a TJ/LJ (Preferably Rubicon). However, LJ Rubicons still command quite a premium. They aren't that plentiful around here (Detroit), with the Auto trans. I could go with a TJ Rubicon and lose some of the extra room, or a regular LJ. I'd like to go to 33s or similar, so a lift would be needed either way. I'm just debating whether or not the 4:1 Transfer case, D44 Front, and Mopar Air lockers are worth the premium. Any input on this? Any wheeling will be fairly light (trail running, overland camping, etc.)

Also realized this may be my last chance to pick up a clean 7.3 Super Duty with <200k miles. They are getting older by the day. A short box extended cab would also fit my needs well. I'm just not sure how the mileage is on them.

One thing to consider is I will be devoting more time to tracking the ACR in the future, so I might eventually need something capable of pulling a tow dolly with a -2500lb car on it. I don't think this would be a huge problem for the Jeep. I know it will be fine for a PSD.

Thoughts? I am really leaning toward the Jeep, but would like to keep my options open. Just unsure as to whether or not its worth the premium for the Rubicon on the LJ. I know I want a Rubicon, but I don't see the point if I'm just going to go to ARB lockers eventually anyway (how to the Mopar ones compare? Do they even warrant an upgrade?). The big thing is finding a LJ with a hard top. It appears as though tops for LJs (hard and soft) are hard to come across, especially the Mopar ones.

Pics of XJ for the interested. Pretty basic, Up-County, 31s, Hella 500FFs. Great road trip vehicle, just light on the room for taking 4 people camping.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/37908_410049336679_6234738_n.jpg

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Or, I could just throw caution into the wind and pick up a CTS-V, C5 Z06, or Evo, and just pay a lot more in insurance.

I would say for light off road a Rubicon is overkill.

I wouldn't want to tow a race car and all the related accessories with a Wrangler, plus I think 7.3 Powerstrokes are depreciating so slow you could drive one for a couple years and get the same back out of it if you decided it was too much truck.

I like Jeeps too but if you are looking to get mid 20s mpgs especially on 33 inchers with a lift.......well that just isn't going to happen. I have an XJ now with 31 inch tires and a 3" lift and I am getting 12-13 mpg around town and 16-17 mpg on the highway. And that is fairly typical of lifted Jeeps. Eonomical it is not so it's basically a weekend toy. In fact none of the vehicles you mentioned (including V, ZO6 and Evo) are economical and would not work well if you had to actually pick clients up. None of them except for the Super Duty would work well for towing. So I guess I am a little confused. All your choices are good vehicles but not for what your needs are.

In reply to Feedyurhed:

I got about 19 on average around town in my XJ. Wasn't too horrible.

The only real clients I pick up are a board member, vendor or two. Not a large group of people. I'm just trying to find something that fits my lifestyle a bit more while looking a bit more "grown up". I'll admit, I am a young person in a pretty grown field. I probably have a tad bit more money than sense at this point.

Is a LJ that bad for towing? I've flat-towed disabled cars (neon), and the boat (Seadoo Speedster) with the XJ before no problems. Would a Neon on a tow dolly be that different?

I've owned a 7.3 PSD, a lifted XJ and currently own an LJ Rubicon. First off, none of those three will crack 20 mpg. My PSD got exceptionally good mileage and it was still only in the high 19s mixed driving. Most fullsize diesel pickups will be in that 16-20 range. My XJ never broke 15 mpg when it was stock and got more like 10-12 once it was lifted. The LJ gets 10-12 as well, but it's also lifted.

As for towing, I'd say the LJ is pretty terrible at it and it'll be a lot worse once it's lifted. Everything that makes it a good trail vehicle also makes it an awful tow vehicle. Then again, I would have said the same thing about an XJ. If you found the XJ to be acceptable, then go for it. In particular, I don't like towing with Jeeps because they have marginal brakes, extremely low power, short wheelbase, high center of gravity, soft suspension, relatively light weight, and narrow track width. Most of those attributes get even worse when it's lifted. Again, though, if you've done it before and don't mind it, have at it.

Based on what you've described, I don't think you need the Rubicon. I recommend that you never, ever go fourwheeling alone. If you follow that rule and carry a few basic recovery items (strap, clevises), you can safely increase the difficulty of the trails you go on until you find your limitations. I'd only look at things like lockers if you find you're getting stuck a lot.

You also mentioned that the XJ was short on room for 4 people camping. A Wrangler, even in the LJ variety, will certainly not be any better in that respect. I love the open canopy of the Wrangler compared to the enclosed cabin of the XJ, but I do miss all that secure and weatherproof room in the XJ.

You asked about the Mopar air lockers. They're fine. Plenty strong for moderate stuff. The rear locker is slighty more prone to failure than the front locker, because it has a limited slip built into it. I've seen people put a factory front locker in the rear after they've broken the rear. However, that's from pretty harsh trails. You shouldn't have to worry about it. The ARB lockers are indeed stronger all around, but they're very expensive. My recommendation is to get the non-Rubicon LJ and buy a rear locker (possibly an ARB) if you find you need it.

I've had loads to of Jeeps and zero power strokes so this may seem a bit biased.

I'll throw another one out there, if you are looking at LJs then early 4door JKs are also in your price range. Which would be a good combo between your old XJ and the LJ. The 07-08 with the tow package had 4.10 gears from the factory and the 4doors are rated to tow 5k lbs.

I had an 07 JK 6spd 4.10 gears and it was by far one of my favorite vehicles (not so much on the car payment for something I wanted to mod). But it was great. I towed a 911 on a heavy Uhaul trailer no problem.

Like I said I had a JK and a car payment, and I currently have a TJ with the 6cyl and 5spd. First an TJ/LJ and a JK are two different vehicles. The JK is a lot more comfortable and almost softer than a TJ. Also my TJ is only rated to tow 3500 lbs. The cargo space in the TJ is minimal at best. Access to the TJ/LJ backseat with the top on is a PITA unless you are a kid or flexible chick.

I think either a JK or TJ/LJ would fit your off road needs without getting the Rubicon package. Your mostly paying for the lockers on the Rubi, and electric disconnects. The Sahara package TJ/LJs should have the same D44 rear as the Rubi and if you are going with ARB lockers you could do that and save on the added cost of the Rubi.

As others have said MPGs won't be great. I get a consistent 18-18.5 with my TJ, but that's mostly highway with full doors, hardtop, the a/c on at 65-70 mph.

My suggestion would be to drive a TJ/LJ/JK/PSD and see which one you like better.

Let me know if I can help with any more a TJ JK questions.

Nope, I'd never tow much with a Jeep. If it's on a trailer, I'm not hooking it to a Jeep. I flat-towed a big CJ7 with my WJ many times, but that's a whole different animal than putting said Jeep on a trailer.
I'll also agree that a Rubi is overkill for what you are doing. A Jeep on 32's with a good LSD in the rear will get you in plenty of trouble. Selectable lockers are a great thing. When you get in trouble with the open diff, you still have the locker to help....or get you more stuck.

Is the JK 3.8 underpowered compared to the 3.8? I've heard people say that due to weight they are more sluggish than a 4.0? I briefly considered them, but was a bit leery of the more complicated electronics down the road.

Thanks for the tip on the Rubicon. For what I do, I guess it is not entirely needed. It's not that I don't do more hardcore wheeling, but I don't really want to wheel/berkeley up my primary DD or a car I am paying on.

MPG isn't a huge thing. Mileage is reimbursed for work expense, so it's not the main criteria. I guess if I really decided I needed it, a Rubicon TC can be added. A D44 front is not most likely needed with 33s. I would highly consider ARB air lockers no matter what the vehicle, so I was just unsure if the disparity in cost was worth the "Rubicon Premium".

I disagree on the fuel economy for the PSD.

With only a mild economy chip, I regularly hit 22 mpg in my F250 extended cab 8' box. I know people who get 28, but they relly have to work at it.

Now my truck is loaded pretty heavy permantently. With a heavy steel utility cap and tools bringing the total curb weight to 8700 lbs, I still usually get 17-18 mpg, never less then 15, even towing.

You said you are a young person in a grown up field.

Frankly, if I was a board member riding with you, there is absolutely nothing about any of your choices that says "professional" to me. They all say, "young upstart with more money than sense".

I think you need to focus your goals a little more. There is nothing wrong with driving what you like. But if the point is to look more professional, those vehicles don't cut it.

Eh, we have similar "young" board members (late 20s-early 30s). It's just a non-profit. Is driving an LJ or clean pickup really any less professional than a camcordsion? It's not like I's be buying something fresh off of the lot and throwing money around on something like a Mustang for Focus ST.

My take is if you honestly need to impress people you ALREADY work for by appealing to their LACK of car taste/knowledge, you should either not bother trying, or get new bosses. The whole idea is pretty ridiculous to me. It's one thing driving around with clients (and this thing better involve having a company car or getting well paid for mileage/wear&tear), but if your boss needs to bum a ride with you maybe HE needs a better job so he can afford his own car to be picky about.

I've heard people say that due to weight they are more sluggish than a 4.0?

I give you a lot of credit for adding 'due to weight', which already makes this a more intelligent statement than all the jeep people who have said that the 3.8 doesnt make as much power/torque as the 4.0 blah blah blah.

There's a huge difference between trying to impress people, and looking more professional. If I wanted to impress people, I certainly wouldn't be looking to purchase a 10 year old pickup or Jeep. Just tired of rolling around like a broke-ass vehicle which doesn't suit my leisure time.

I don't see any Jeep as "professional". If that is a need, I'd say split the money into an E39 daily and a YJ for the weekends.

I guess "professionality" is in the eye of the beholder. At least here in Detroit, most people end up driving an F-150 or similar. Hell, our Executive Director rolls in a Base 2wd with Rubber floor and steelies. Nobody minds. Yes, this is the most backward city when it comes to the cars people drive, I am not contesting that.

How about we disregard the arguments back and forth over what is professional/presentable or not and just go for the mechanical comparison of the two? That's what the real question here, the rest of the initial post is more thinking out loud.

I would agree that the choices listed don't scream professional, but it doesn't seem to be that big of a deal to you. Mrs. Oldtin had a TJ - 4.0 auto, 4" lift, 33s, open d30/35 diffs. Got about 12 mpg. It handled fairly serious trails without much problem and a $300 winch took care of the problems, so in my mind a Rubi is overkill for what you described. She also toted a 10' landscape trailer around - 2500# loaded

No problems, even with the D35? With the 44 in the stock LJ, everything should be quite peachy then.

None at all - I assumed we would break it - then I would go to a pick n pull and nab a d44 from an xj (a few versions had them) - but it was never an issue. Tie rod ends on the other hand, needed replacing after every venture to the off road park. I never did the wj tie rod/drag link swap.

Mazda787b wrote: No problems, even with the D35? With the 44 in the stock LJ, everything should be quite peachy then.

I ran a 89 YJ with 33" MT Baja Belteds and never had a problem. The "weak" D30/35 thing is internet lore more than anything else. Today, if I were building a Jeep I'd think twice about 33's on a 30/35 combo, but that's because I'd be doing much more hardcore stuff than you are talking about. I've had D44's with 33's and 35's and lockers (Detroits, locked all the time) and wheeled them hard. One was the 4.2L, the other was a 360-powered beast. No problems at all.

What kills 30/35 combo's is the driving style as much as the tire choice.

There's a huge difference between trying to impress people, and looking more professional.

No there isn't.

How about we disregard the arguments back and forth over what is professional/presentable or not and just go for the mechanical comparison of the two?

That sounds wonderful.

DILYSI Dave wrote: I don't see any Jeep as "professional".

Grand Cherokee.

I'm not a super Jeep guy, but I agree with not paying the Rubicon premium and adding aftermarket mods to a non-Rubicon Jeep. The aftermarket is plentiful, well documented and there are plenty of used parts out there, too.

We towed a Yugo on a small trailer behind a 4 door JK with no problems.

I think the Ford is a bit more professional though. I know plenty of "professional" people that drive diesel trucks daily. Personally I would say berkeley it and drive what you want. Life is too short to bother trying to impress people.

Mazda787b wrote: Is the JK 3.8 underpowered compared to the 3.8? I've heard people say that due to weight they are more sluggish than a 4.0? I briefly considered them, but was a bit leery of the more complicated electronics down the road. Thanks for the tip on the Rubicon. For what I do, I guess it is not entirely needed. It's not that I don't do more hardcore wheeling, but I don't really want to wheel/berkeley up my primary DD or a car I am paying on. MPG isn't a huge thing. Mileage is reimbursed for work expense, so it's not the main criteria. I guess if I really decided I needed it, a Rubicon TC can be added. A D44 front is not most likely needed with 33s. I would highly consider ARB air lockers no matter what the vehicle, so I was just unsure if the disparity in cost was worth the "Rubicon Premium".

The 3.8-powered JK is sluggish, but mainly because of the weight and that awful auto transmission. The 42RLE is geared all wrong for an overweight Jeep.

The Rubicon TC isn't needed with an auto. It'd be nice on really technical trails with the manual, but still not needed unless you get into tougher rockcrawling stuff.

As mentioned elsewhere, an LJ will already have a disc-brake 44 in the rear, which is awesome. The 30 front in a standard LJ is really no weaker in the areas that matter than a standard cut 44 front. Same axleshafts, knuckles, bearings, brakes, etc.