It's been a long time since I've tried to road race in Mustangs, but now that there are dead ones on Facebook Marketplace I was starting to think about building one.
I've been playing around with RX7s, E36 BMWs and even Corvettes a little since then.
I haven't messed around with them since before the 2005 redesign. Can they turn and stop and take abuse without turning themselves into razorblades now?
For clarity:
Can they turn and stop: Yes. A lot.
Do they still suck:
They do not.
Totally different with the transition to the S197. No more snap spin from the four link rear suspension. They only got better from there. They've even had independent rear suspension for several years now. One of our local competitors still drives his solid axle, modular engine S197 in CAM-S and is a regular class winner.
I took my DD V6 S197 to the track one weekend (I'm an instructor). I was curious. I came away impressed. Only problem was the V6 is speed limited because of the pedestrian driveshaft.
One of my students had an Ecoboost S550. After riding in it, I wouldn't spring for the 5.0. Very impressive car lacking only the exhaust note.
Mustangs never sucked
They're still a great car for secretaries or hair dressers.
They are yuuuggggee!
My mother has one. Hers is a vert with the little 4 banger ecoboost. It is stupid quick.
It makes my rx8 look absolutely tiny.
I don't really understand why people always turned their noses up at the solid axle, it's arguably better in some ways than more rudimentary IRS systems like semi trailing arm stuff, where the toe and camber get all wonky as the suspension compresses. Also, the 4 link has been pretty well figured out by racers to make it work pretty well by now where it isn't much of a hindrance - especially on well-maintained race tracks that are fairly smooth and free of mid-corner bumps. One nice thing about Mustangs, is that whatever you want to do to the car has already been accomplished and documented by someone else, so getting it to go fast in whatever discipline you choose is a matter of following the proven formulas.
I see S550s at every track day and they are fast.
ShawnG said:They're still a great car for secretaries or hair dressers.
Ken Miles knew what he was talking about!
Canute said:It's been a long time since I've tried to road race in Mustangs, but now that there are dead ones on Facebook Marketplace I was starting to think about building one.
I've been playing around with RX7s, E36 BMWs and even Corvettes a little since then.
I haven't messed around with them since before the 2005 redesign. Can they turn and stop and take abuse without turning themselves into razorblades now?
I've played with that same list of cars. All great platforms. I bought an S197 GT with the MT. Made cool noises but overall didn't enjoy it.
The manual transmission sucked badly. No, a short shift kit won't fix it. The 6 speed in the later car is much better.
The 4.6 doesn't feel fun after 4,500 rpm. Power just kinda flattens out. Not fun to rev out.
The steering is slow.
The suspension needs a lot more shock and spring than your off the shelf Konis with Eibach springs.
Ergonomics are a bit off with the steering wheel
interior is very plasticy
They don't suck to drive like they used to but that generation wasn't great.
The steering and stock suspension on the S550 were still pretty mediocre but the engine and transmission were great
Check the SCCA runoff results for the last few years. The Phoenix team has done pretty good with their Mustangs in the touring classes. Some v6 Mustangs have done pretty good in the lower touring classes as well.
Pickup trucks and Mustangs are what Ford North America is good at.
I like how they designed the Coyote engines to use both port and direct injection to avoid having to have your engine walnut blasted every so often.
As much as Ford disappointed me with some of their other offerings* I may eventually own a Mustang.
*I still have a FWD 3.7 engine that was destroyed by a well known water pump issue sitting in the garage, I should get rid of that.
racerfink said:ShawnG said:They're still a great car for secretaries or hair dressers.
Ken Miles knew what he was talking about!
The Mustang was supposed to be called the Torino but Henry II had a side piece from Italy at the time and the Ford brass thought it might be a bad idea to give the car an Italian name.
In reply to dannyp84 :
There's some caveats in your statement on the solid axle that should help explain why the solid axle didn't get a lot of respect, especially on the Fox/SN95 cars.
JimS said:Check the SCCA runoff results for the last few years. The Phoenix team has done pretty good with their Mustangs in the touring classes. Some v6 Mustangs have done pretty good in the lower touring classes as well.
In A Sedan this year, every Mustang blew up.
In reply to racerfink :
Check the A sedan results from past years. I specifically mentioned the touring classes and I also meant more than this year. I'm an ex-SCCA guy from years ago and not completely up to snuff but I believe touring classes are much less modified than A sedan.
I was thinking S197. I don't know if the three link is lighter than the new IRS.
I've seen a few in the low four figures with blown engines or other issues.
I was thinking of getting a car and fully stripping it down.
I have kind of a wild 5.8l aftermarket aluminum small block Ford built up that weighs 310 pounds just missing a starter and front accessories.
No class for it, but it would be a rocket.
I was going to do an FC swap long ago but my Mazda nut fell off of the radar.
I have no idea how they would make the cars fit into AS vs the Fox cars.
amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter) said:Canute said:It's been a long time since I've tried to road race in Mustangs, but now that there are dead ones on Facebook Marketplace I was starting to think about building one.
I've been playing around with RX7s, E36 BMWs and even Corvettes a little since then.
I haven't messed around with them since before the 2005 redesign. Can they turn and stop and take abuse without turning themselves into razorblades now?
I've played with that same list of cars. All great platforms. I bought an S197 GT with the MT. Made cool noises but overall didn't enjoy it.
The manual transmission sucked badly. No, a short shift kit won't fix it. The 6 speed in the later car is much better.The 4.6 doesn't feel fun after 4,500 rpm. Power just kinda flattens out. Not fun to rev out.
The steering is slow.
The suspension needs a lot more shock and spring than your off the shelf Konis with Eibach springs.
Ergonomics are a bit off with the steering wheelinterior is very plasticy
They don't suck to drive like they used to but that generation wasn't great.
The steering and stock suspension on the S550 were still pretty mediocre but the engine and transmission were great
Who hurt you? 
Interior is plasticky, yes. I think the steering has good feel. The brakes are very capable with only a pad change. Too much body roll stock, but can be corrected. Yes, there is something odd about the steering column depth with the pedals. Maybe it doesn't bother me because I drove Italian cars for years. Changing out the rear lower arms for a/m ones made the rear axle much less intrusive. I never really liked the Fox Mustang I had because of the suspension. The S197 is waaaay better. Sure, the S550 is better still, but at a premium price in the current market.
The 3 valve modular engine in the GT is reliable but just okay. I'd love to have one with a pushrod engine, but I like old stuff.
I pretty much like all Mustangs, so probably am biased. I never tire of looking at my S197, and my eyes are drawn to every one I see. I love sitting in it and looking at the dash and other details. It is a fantastic GT car to take on trips. It's not a sports car; too heavy. But it is a very fun car to have as a daily. Entertaining without being painful.
ddavidv said:Who hurt you?
Interior is plasticky, yes. I think the steering has good feel. The brakes are very capable with only a pad change. Too much body roll stock, but can be corrected. Yes, there is something odd about the steering column depth with the pedals. Maybe it doesn't bother me because I drove Italian cars for years. Changing out the rear lower arms for a/m ones made the rear axle much less intrusive. I never really liked the Fox Mustang I had because of the suspension. The S197 is waaaay better. Sure, the S550 is better still, but at a premium price in the current market.
The 3 valve modular engine in the GT is reliable but just okay. I'd love to have one with a pushrod engine, but I like old stuff.
I pretty much like all Mustangs, so probably am biased. I never tire of looking at my S197, and my eyes are drawn to every one I see. I love sitting in it and looking at the dash and other details. It is a fantastic GT car to take on trips. It's not a sports car; too heavy. But it is a very fun car to have as a daily. Entertaining without being painful.
Agreed with (waves hand) all of this. I freaking love my S197. I've bonded to it much more strongly than I ever did my Boxster. Mine has worn out stock suspension (to be addressed this winter) and a bone stock 3V that is left in the dust by all modern performance cars. I don't care. It's fun to row through the gears, it makes good noises, and the power is more than adequate. Yes, the interior is plasticky, but show me a mid-2000s car that wasn't? Best of all, every single performance deficit that the car has can be addressed, easily and cheaply, though the aftermarket. The great thing about Mustangs (all of them) is that they are a blank canvas. You can make them into whatever you want. Street cruiser, corner carver, drag racer, you name it.
Hard to believe that the Fox and the Mustang made it to the silver anniversary.
I have a 2014 V6 premium, 6-speed, that is very good. It is 1000% better than the 2003 Mustang my wife had. Even at 170k miles, it's as tight as new. Fun to toss around an autocross course or cruise a mountain road. It's one of the best GT cars I've ever owned and a nice place to spend hours burning up the miles. The interior rattles and creaks less than my 2014 VW. My wife put 1100 miles on it last weekend and it managed just shy of 29 mpg which I think is simply amazing.
There was a Caddy CTS and Dodge Challenger running A Sedan. All it takes is a V8 of the same make as the manufacturer, with less than 5.0L of displacement.
Just about every review I've seen on Mustangs lately complains about lack of steering feel, so AMG_rx7 is pretty spot on there.
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:I freaking love my S197. I've bonded to it much more strongly than I ever did my Boxster.
Same, except it was a 128i for me. The BMW was absolutely the better car on paper, and both had more than their fair share of shortcomings, but there was just something intangible about my S197 (RIP) that I found more satisfying.
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