I'm always on the lookout for potential Challenge cars (even though I'm not quite at a place in my life where I have time to work on it, but I can dream!). On eBay, I found an '86 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z for cheap.(current bid $200, N.R;) It runs, but needs work. (runs rough, tranny issues)
My goal is to get something to AutoX and do track days, but still be my "reserve" D.D. Then I can put my Contour back to stock so it's not so punishing
Anybody have info on these cars?
I used to have an '85 GLH Turbo. Same engine in a much lighter, stiffer (relatively) chassis. Reliability on a Dodge that old is iffy at best.
It'll do a number of things reliably. You may not like what they are!
I have to admit I'd be tempted too.
My goal is to get something to AutoX and do track days
I LOVE LOVE LOVE turbo dodges, but for an autox car, you could do much better. I had an 88 Shadow ES. It still has a special place in my heart. As far as reliability goes, I've heard mixed reviews. May the good lord strike me down if I'm fibbing, I sold that car with 265,000 miles on it for more than I paid for it, on the ORIGINAL motor AND turbo. The only big issue was crank-end play, causing me to burn through clutches pre-maturely, and head-gaskets are a weak link, though I never had any problems.
ALL that being said, you could do a lot worse for a challenge car. If it stays around $200, I'm guessing it's at LEAST worth that much in scrap (~2700 lbs.) I'd grab it.
Think of it like a Merkur or Mk2 VW, its not something you get in and drive, you buy it then build what you want out of it.
Good things about them:
Easy to make alot of power lots of junkyard brake/swaybar/suspension (other than dampers) upgrades
bad things:
Not terribly reliable, even complely stock I had an 85 charger and I got about 20 mpg most of the time, yes i know they should do better than that, but there were no obvious problems in the 2 years i had it tat could have been the cause.
Alot of parts are NLA from the dealer, and the parts store stuff is complete crap (starter solenoids, steering racks, cv joints etc)
No off the shelf performance dampers anymore
It would work for what you want if you dont mind replacing half of the car to do it. Here is a site where a guy built one into about as good a track car as is possible. http://csracer.com/
Travis_K wrote: Think of it like a Merkur or Mk2 VW, its not something you get in and drive, you buy it then build what you want out of it.
That's funny because that's exactly what happened to our XR4Ti :)
First, Travis we've had this discussion before you're car was not right, so your experience while somewhat normal for a TD that has been "driven hard and put away wet" it isn't normal in the larger context. 
The fact is, I've been involved with these cars since I was in grade school, bought my 87 CSX when I turned 18 in 1995. I've owned, driven and worked on nearly every type of 2.2/2.5 engine produced (outside of the 2.2 16V) and I can say that if you're willing to put in the time to fix all of the factory oversights, poor maintenance and pay attention to problems you can have a relatively reliable car that can be fun to drive.
Case in point, my CSX has sat for the last 8 years (while I screwed around with other cars) finally had to fire it up to have something to drive. After going through the fuel/cooling systems and upgrading the suspension it has been a perfectly reliable car and returns about 23mpg around town and 30 or so on the freeway (depending on how I drive obviously)
The TurboZ is probably the lightest Daytona body to start with (not the most aerodynamic, but the lack of pop-ups help reduce the weight) however it has the weakest transmission put in the TD's and the worst intake and electronics package. You'd basically have to replace the top end of the engine, the transmission, computer to get decent performance out of it. To improve the handling, the usual tricks apply but Koni's are becoming scarce now, so Neon stuff is being pressed into service.
Reliability is usually lack of maintenance, go through all of the electrical connections and clean, repair/replace them and use proper grease in the connections. Replace all of the vacuum lines, coolant lines and radiator. If you do the late model intake change, pop the head and put in a proper HG along with a set of head studs and a new water pump and timing belt. The bottom ends are hell for stout, except that the lightweight rods used from 86-87 tend to let go when pressed or at around 150-160K and the piston pins like to loosen up overtime causing an annoying piston pin slap.
The most annoying problem with mine was the wiring. It had a bad connection somewhere that suppied power to the ignition and it would keep bucking and cutting out when i drove it, but not often enough that i was able to figure out what was wrong with it and fix it. That was the reason I finally got rid of it, although I had constant problems with the power steering leaking (it took a new pump, lines and 2 steering racks to get it to stop), and i had to replace the sterter soleniiod twice, and the battery cable once (and push start it at least 20 times) becasue of problems with the starter not working. I dont see anything wrong with buying one for a project, I just dont think its something you should expect to be a reliable daily driver.
Yup, the older style pumps and lines were prone to fail, the newer style aluminum ZF units work much better and the lines were of a smarter design that reduced the early failures of the older style lines.
The starters on the turbo cars (especially the smaller L-body's) are prone to failing due to excessive heat, a 1500 degree chunk of cast iron less than an inch away from it tends to do that. The factory went to smaller and better starters over the years (early l-bodies had huge starters) and the factory provided a heat shield for the starter solenoid. As long as you had a good starter and used a heat shield you typically didn't have problems unless the wiring went to crap.
Like I said, my 87 is a reliable daily driver and finished 2nd in STS for the season. The fact is, the cars were cheap to begin with, built to a budget and are from the period of time where mechanics and shadetree mechanics were transitioning from carbs and points to electronic fuel injection, so expect that everything is wrong and that you'll need to fix it.
'86 is not the ideal year from an engine/tranny standpoint. It's still a non intercooled, log intake manifold, it's got the wimply lightweight rods in it and it's running the A525 trans that was mentioned earlier. From a performance standpoint, there are definitely better combos to be had if you're going to start modifying it. With the right combo of production parts, you can make a ton of power out of the 2.2/2.5's for next to nothing.
On the reliability side, I've owned, driven and raced turbo dodges for years and have great luck. They are old cars now and are usually a bit rough around the edges, but once you address the neglect/abuse that they probably have been subjected to, you'll love them.
The good thing about the oldere cars is they are pretty light. But yea, the wiring and drivetrain parts arent terribly great. If I was going ot just get one to drive, id get an 89 TII Daytona, but for building a track car the lighter body would be nice.
Thanks for the advice, guys! But I had to let this one pass, for several reasons, Top 3: It was 3 hours away, the seller had zero feedback, don't have space or time yet to dedicate to a project.
If you were looking for one to build, last year's Challenge winner has a really decent '86 Z body that he may sell. One thing about the TD's is that there is good aftermarket support and there is a ton of used parts around. Anything you buy, you will most likely have to do a ton of preventive maintenance on as these cars usually get driven like they are stolen and then put away hot.
On the point about the headgasket being a weak link; man, you better hope that is what is gonna give first! These engines have the Mahle pistons in them, so I definately hope the HG acts like a fuse for my terrible tuning!
On the other hand, using a cometic and Mahle pistons is a bad idea if you don't know where your A/F ratio is.......ask me how I know.
-Les
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