Drove an accord hybrid today and a ES300h one of them was really nice

It's that time again. I was looking at Mazda6 and other mid size sedans but even those the backseats are a little tight. (for fitting rear facing car seats comfortably its doable tho) but then I realized a lot of our family driving is actually city driving which is where a hybrid excels. A lot of my commuting also has me in stop and go traffic.

Enter the 2014+ Accord Hybrid and the 2013+ Lexus ES300H

Currently I drive between 300-400 miles a week in my 2003 montero 20th anniversary. It is a very nice vehicle, climate control works great, the materials feel quality, the leather is better IMO than most modern BMWs I have been in (probably because most of them at Leatherette), sound system is great. The space is great. Everything is awesome except for the 16mpgs and premium recommended sticker.

Since I spend so much time in the car (at least 2hrs a day) I don't really want to downgrade my experience in terms of comfort etc. And with the ever increasing rear facing guidelines I need to comfortably keep my youngest rear facing for at least another year if not longer.

Avg Fuelly mileage for the 6 is about 30, Accord 4 cyl also about 30, Accord Hybrid 41, ES300h 36.2 30mpgs at current gas prices "saves" about 270 bucks a month in gas (I put this in quotes because I am well aware that a car payment would counter this) While the accord hybrid would save 332, and actually a 2013 volt would save 344 (assuming we are not close enough to hitting the next rate hike on electricity)

So anyway I went to the dealer to drive an Accord Hybrid since I escaped a little early today. Impressions: Smooth, decent tech, the cloth interior is not bad but it felt very lacking in character and specialness. It certainly did not feel expensive, I dare say it even felt a little bit cheap. This was also in checking out the interiors of some EXL/Touring models even though the only hybrid on the lot was cloth. The trunk space on the accord hybrid vs non hybrid was a huge penalty and to be honest I think it's a deal breaker. Motor got a bit high pitched and buzzy at times when it kicked on.

Then I went next door and checked out a preowned/certified 2013 ES300H with only 9k miles on the clock. Wow this car felt expensive. The leather felt good, the steering wheel and seat and everything moves to meet you or let you out of the car. Cooled seats as well as heated. Probably a good 4-5 inches of knee room in the back seat behind my driver seat setup as a 6ft driver it was cavernous. It was quiet. It was smooth. Seriously impressed me. However the price tag is also seriously more expensive than the other vehicles I was considering at least this particular example. It felt nicer/better equipped than any BMW/MB/Audi product I have been in that was made in the last 10 years this side of an M-edition car.

I love taking advantage of depreciation and would rather drive something nicer and older than newer and less optioned as long as reliability is good. Is there another candidate out there that would get me more of the Lexus quality/comfort and the 30+ combined I am looking for?

I wonder about the Lincoln MKZ Hybrid, The tarted up Fusion.

Look at used Camry Hybrids and even normal Avalons(super nice but only the newest and $$$ are hybrid). Still OK mileage though, may be cheap enough to offset more fuel?

What about Lexus CT200H? Not sure on back seat space though.

Budget?

The new gen Avalon is a really nice car. The Av. Hybrid drivetrain is the same as the ES300h. Perhaps it comes in a bit cheaper?

More thoughts:

Acura ILX Hybrid

Audi A3 TDI

Infiniti Q50 Hybrid - more $ but damn nice

Look at the MKZ hybrid as someone else said

And Ford Fusion Hybrids are same vehicle basically, honestly they're very nice on the inside IMO, with the leather option at least. My wife had a 2010 V6 3.0l model and it was great.

Also look at some of the higher-trim-level Prius models.

Mini Cooper Countryman? Buy with a big warranty though.

Edit: not quite 30mpg combined, but I love them: Mercedes C250. The CLA250 is ugly IMO but definitely gets your MPG target.

What is the budget?

If you're looking for a highway runner for just you, and a lower price point, the Lexus CT200h might fit the bill. Disappointingly its powertrain is out of the prius, but it is a fun car to run through some turns. Its interior is typical lower level Lexus (nice). The ES300h is essentially a fancy Avalon hybrid, which is a very nice vehicle as well...though the prices reflect that. I doubt you'll find Lexus like interior fit/finish/quality in anything else at a cheaper price, its kind of their thing. You can find the same drive train in the camry hybrid, but its not in the same league as the other two when it comes to interior quality.

I had a Fusion Hybrid Titanium for a rental one weekend, totally blew me away. It is a great place to be for the commute, and very roomy besides. Handles way better than I expected. I'd put it on the list.

ProDarwin wrote: The new gen Avalon is a really nice car. The Av. Hybrid drivetrain is the same as the ES300h. Perhaps it comes in a bit cheaper?

Maybe so, but I had a 2015 as a rental and it handled like absolute dogE36 M3. YMMV

My mom's 2014 isn't bad. Much sportier feeling than past models and pretty respectable for a large car. I'm sure its a whole berkeleyload better than a 2003 Montero

It's not just for me, its for me during the week but I have drop off duties at daycare with an 18month old in rear facing and a 5yr old in front facing. In addition since our other car is a very nice 2010 Honda Odyssey we would still like the smaller vehicle to get better mpg so when we run to the store/dinner/something that doesnt require being loaded for bear as a parent we can decrease our overall spending on fuel.

I can get a Ford definitely for cheap relatively, the concern I had was over the reported reliability of them and kind of like with the accord how much of the trunk was used by the battery.

I actually discovered the Avalon hybrids last night and the limited trim has all the bells and whistles that the ES300H had (leather cooled seats etc) but at a slightly lower price tag.

Sadly anything smaller than the Fusion/6/Camry/Accord/etc like the CT200h are probably too tight for my normal needs. Even the little bit more space the Avalon/ES300H had over the Accord/Fusion was something I appreciated and would like if possible

I love talking car with you dorks lol

Budget wise, I am comfortable with spending up to the 30ish region but the particular ES300H I drove was higher than I would like to pay at close to 39.

I think I will have to at least go look at the Fusion just because of the price delta with costco/xplan through work/deals I bet I could get a brand new titanium hybrid for around 28. I saw Avalon Hybrid limiteds right around 30k but sadly none were anywhere close to me to check out.

That Lexus is a nice quiet appliance. I had a loaner for a day. It was extremely smooth and quiet, not much fun though. My CT200h is fun to fling around and it much quicker that it appears on paper. One thing, Lexus/Toyota know hybrids and do them well. They are much more reliable than anybody else's and get excellent real world mileage. I would be skeptical that the Honda will actual deliver lower cost $$/mile in the real world.

I am concerned that a lot of our run around duties tends to be city miles which would mean a non hybrid would do even worse than its normal combined mileage. There is another thing about something with better gas mileage I would enjoy. My TDI jetta could get 600 miles per tank and meant only 1 trip to the gas station every couple weeks. It's a minor chore but once you have a car that does not need to go as often it spoils you.

But you are totally right there is a hybrid tax and I am open to other cars that are non hybrid/diesel etc if they are comparable

Datsun1500 wrote: It looks like a non-hybrid ES can be bought for $5-6K less than the Hybrid. How long will it take to make that up in gas cost?

With his driving, 5-6 years, assuming gas stays at $3/gal or below.

That doesn't account for the fact that the hybrid will have higher resale when he's done with it though.

How about a Passat TDI? Honestly, I'd probably go with an Avalon Hybrid just because it has a sportmatic system which you could shift it. Looks like a lot of hybrids don't have a sportmatic shifter.

Jaynen wrote: I can get a Ford definitely for cheap relatively, the concern I had was over the reported reliability of them and kind of like with the accord how much of the trunk was used by the battery.

This is a good point, there is a significant portion of the trunk that goes away in the Fusion Hybrid due to the batteries. I stuck my road bike in the trunk of the Hybrid, and I was a bit less comfortable doing that than I would have been otherwise - loading the bike around the battery was a bit tricky, and I was a bit afraid of scratching surfaces with gears, but the bike did fit with seats folded down. My kids are nearly the same age, and I didn't get to test out seat fitment, but I can't imagine that being a problem.

Gas here is over 4 bucks a gallon around 4.25 most places currently. I love diesels but the new passat TDI has had reliability issues that make me cringe even as a big fan and former VAG owner.

The Montero is really nice, I tend to want to look at my vehicles for the long haul. I did not anticipate being back in california after having moved to washington, if it wasnt for the gas mpg I wouldn't replace it and I think if I find something that I find nice to spend time in that gets good mpg and also holds the family it will be something we keep for quite a while

It looks like a Ford Escape Hybrid was made up until 2012. If you got a 2wd, it looks like it gets around 35 mpg in the city.

If you can get Ford's for cheap why not check out a loaded up Focus Cmax? It is more like a Mazda5 than a regular Focus. I drove it back to back against a Prius and a Ford event and the Cmax was the nicer ride. (see Ford, the marketing events where let me beat the piss out of your FiST and FoST do work.)

Yeah I've seen the Avalon Hybrid Limited right around 30k, the ES300H around 32 but i think that is without the luxury package (which has the real leather cooled seats etc). I see 2012 ES350 for around 23k.

That is intriguing. Any other cars similarly equipped that pull off the mid-high 20s then?

GTwannaB wrote: If you can get Ford's for cheap why not check out a loaded up Focus Cmax? It is more like a Mazda5 than a regular Focus. I drove it back to back against a Prius and a Ford event and the Cmax was the nicer ride. (see Ford, the marketing events where let me beat the piss out of your FiST and FoST do work.)

My aunt and uncle has a Cmax, it gets much worse mileage than its actually claimed to, to the point Ford has to keep sending my aunt and uncle refund checks everytime they update the mileage officially or something silly. It's back seat isn't much larger than a Jetta or anything else. All of those cars are fine when dealing with a single rear facing seat in the middle but when you go 2 car seats in either back seat it takes a lot more space

2015 Honda Accords are running 5k under sticker right now with 0.9%. I priced out the Accord EXL vs Accord Hybrid EXL and even working in residual value differences, it would still take a while to pay the 3k difference. I went w/ the normal EX-L which has excellent seats….and a bunch of other stuff that can be nice to have.

Yeah thats the summer clearance event right? It's a solid car but the interior felt like a downgrade from my montero which is hard for me to give up. I looked at the LX Sport and EX-L models plus a base model hybrid at the dealership

Am I crazy for thinking about a 07-09 E320 Bluetec Mercedes?

I checked out an avalon hybrid for my father (retired), he wound up with a brand new crv. However, the used market is amazing: ac/seats, automated everything etc. I can't bring myself to get one, but I want non-car people to own them and chauffeur me around.

avalon near me

another avalon near me

guess...

Dang, need to find one of those in limited and preferably silver or white and I might even fly to PA for it.

I would look at the long term cost of ownership on the hybrid as well. What are the lifecycles of the batteries? How much would it be to replace it? What's the maintenance compared to a standard gasoline engine or compared to a diesel (well if you buy a VAG product you better stock up cash for repairs no matter what). It seems like you like to keep cars for a decent amount of time. If a hybrid is $6k over a another model it's going to take you a little under 5 years to recoup that costs with the gas prices someone else listed above. What if you have to replace the battery in 8 years? When I worked at Honda that was on average about $4-5k for an insight or civic hybrid. Given inflation over the past few years we'll round up to about $6k. So there's another 5 years to recoup the costs. There are a ton of other variables; but, I guess it comes down to your preference and planned length of ownership.

A co-worker just picked up a GS350 F-Sport - not a hybrid; but, holy cow what a nice ride. Comfy, sporty, plush, insert 20 more adjectives for relaxing.

Personally because I'm a honda fanatic i'd jsut go with an Accord EX-L. The Accord sport is pretty fun too.