Duel purpose rallyx/ autox car

So a friend and I are looking at co-driving a car next season in autocross and rallycross and there is a Scirroco that we are probably going to get to drive but it is on Neuspeed red (?) springs which are awfully stiff. So should we either pull change to softer springs year round or get a second set of struts and softer springs and swap them in for rallycrosses?

I'd personally swap between events, or run the softer set for all events(understanding the huge compromise it would be for autocross.).

My dirt track cavalier rally-crosses just fine, but I think during an auto-cross, it would drive like a drunken donkey with his testes tied up.

My son is setting up a Swift to do the same thing next season. We're going to do the strut swap between events. After the first few times, it should be a 30 minute job, if that.

Zomby Woof wrote: We're going to do the strut swap between events. After the first few times, it should be a 30 minute job, if that.

True that. If a rally pit crew can change an AWD transmission in less time than it takes your lady friends to get ready to go out for a night, the 30 minute swap should become elementary.

N Sperlo wrote: My dirt track cavalier rally-crosses just fine, but I think during an auto-cross, it would drive like a drunken donkey with his testes tied up.

SAY WHAT

I have heard that some people will run springs that aren't super stiff, but also have very thick sway bars. The sway bars are connected for autox to keep things flatter in turns, and disconnected for rallyx to conform to the uneven ground better (undo the end links to disable sway bar). You could also use something like adjustable struts, crank them up for autox, and soften them up for rallyx. Or combinations of each strategy.

I think many people who rallycross have suspensions way too soft. IMO.

I have 260lb springs on the front of an RX-7 and they're borderline too soft...

I do both rallycross and autocross in my 86 300 ZX without changing anything but tires, and have good success at both. The fast fwd rallycross cars I've seen around here seem to do well with very heavy rear springs, to keep the weight from transfering off the tires that need the traction.

That being said, IMO rear wheel drive is waaay more fun than front wheel drive when it comes to rallycross, so I'd say get a rwd car if you haven't commited to the Scirroco

Aeromoto wrote: That being said, IMO rear wheel drive is waaay more fun than front wheel drive when it comes to rallycross, so I'd say get a rwd car if you haven't commited to the Scirroco

It is $1000, has a SCCA log book and a number of mods. I was originally planning on find a RWD car but this is the kind of deal I can't pass up on.

93EXCivic wrote:

Aeromoto wrote: That being said, IMO rear wheel drive is waaay more fun than front wheel drive when it comes to rallycross, so I'd say get a rwd car if you haven't commited to the Scirroco

It is $1000, has a SCCA log book and a number of mods. I was originally planning on find a RWD car but this is the kind of deal I can't pass up on.

I can dig that.

lastsnare wrote: super stiff, very thick, flatter in turns, soften them up

All made me giggle

Pistols, swords or banjos

I'd say swap.

Aeromoto wrote: I do both rallycross and autocross in my 86 300 ZX without changing anything but tires, and have good success at both. The fast fwd rallycross cars I've seen around here seem to do well with very heavy rear springs, to keep the weight from transfering off the tires that need the traction. That being said, IMO rear wheel drive is waaay more fun than front wheel drive when it comes to rallycross, so I'd say get a rwd car if you haven't commited to the Scirroco

You haven't done Rallycross in my Cadavalier. Videos will be up after Sunday's run. I see where you're coming from, but goddamn, the fwd had it's advantages just as RWD does. I'd love to rally a z or s chassis.

Back sort of on topic. How much abuse do you really get in Rally cross? I keep seeing people say that such and such a car looks too good for rallycross. Is it because cars get beat to E36 M3, or is it just hey don't need to look good?

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Back sort of on topic. How much abuse do you really get in Rally cross? I keep seeing people say that such and such a car looks too good for rallycross. Is it because cars get beat to E36 M3, or is it just hey don't need to look good?

Depends on what Rallycross you're doing. We Rallycross all at the same time and don't mind a few bumps and scrapes. Run through the Ozark mountains and you might scrape a few trees if you're lucky. Make sure you've got extra tires and wheels and the battery is held down with a military spec bungee if allowed.

For rallycross, all of the reading I've done says that you should be stiffer than stock, but not as stiff as a gravel rally setup. The good news for you is that people have rallied vw's of every sort for a long time, so that info must be out there.
I'm also doing this in my Mazda2 and have both rally crossed and autocrossed the last two weekends. My gut feeling is that you only want to be as stiff as you absolutely need to be on gravel. If your courses are smooth then stock is the way to go. If its rough, you need to be stiff enough to not destroy your car, whatever that is. As far as autocross, more spring would certainly help me. I'm still working on that.

N Sperlo wrote:

These pictures make me happy.

I autocross and rallycross my 1990 civic, with no changes but tires and shock adjustments.(sway bar adjustment optional). I Have taken top pax (HS) at scca autocrosses and it can hold it's own in the dirt, as long as I'm not driving All I have is koni yellows, a big adjustable rear sway, a harness and a catback . Slicks or star specs for autoX, general artimax(my winter tires) for rallyX.

I think the one size fits all approach is perfectly fine, and it gives you more time to enjoy driving instead of working on the car!

In reply to wrongwheeldrive:

You now MUST link to that video from Rallycrossing. Yes, we see the camera.

In reply to GPS:

If you select my garage, and my Cavalier, the "more pictures" links up to a bunch of pictures from that day.

In reply to N Sperlo:

Normally I'd have no problem sharing video, but that day was my first rallyX experience ever, and my driving was pretty embarrassing. I concluded that I am a much faster driver on pavement(for now)!

It was a doublecross(2 runs rallyx 2 runs autoX, combined raw time, use the same car for both). I was sitting in first after the autocross portion. After the 2 rallyX runs? Pretty close to last . My co-driver fared MUCH better on dirt. I'd share his footage(his camara), but I don't think it's on teh interwebz.

I will make sure to upload some of this year's events as they come, just for you .

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Back sort of on topic. How much abuse do you really get in Rally cross? I keep seeing people say that such and such a car looks too good for rallycross. Is it because cars get beat to E36 M3, or is it just hey don't need to look good?

Some people have the perception that RallyCross is buying a $500 beater and flogging it until it stops moving.

Other people, ah, don't.

Dust and dirt happen, and paint can get scratched from dusty magnetic numbers being changed. Cones leave marks but that happens anyway.

Mechanically, the main issue I have is transmissions and diff bearings and diff housings, most of that is because of the nut holding the wheel. (As long as I'm pointed where I want to go, I don't lift. Let everyone else lift over cross ruts.)

LOL. I have linked up video on c Clem's Back 40 thread. I just ordered some cameras, but I don't think they'll be in by Sunday. Oooooooh can't wait!!!

There are plenty of folks up here in the Northeast who rallycross newer WRXs/STis and Evos VIII-IX. Looking at the results sheets, they seem to be the norm rather than old AWD cars, but older cars do participate (GC Imprezas, AWD E30s, etc.).

I plan on trying rally-x with my 1G Eclipse AWD this winter. It's a rustbucket with worn-out paint, so I'm not worried at all about any paint damage. I'll need a skid plate, though.

Back in CO you saw old piles of junk, GRM friendly cars (like my Neon), and more than one Evo and STI. Other than scratches you are not likely to do much damage.

And yes, I will rallycross the 911. Cars are meant to be driven. They cry gasoline tears when they are not