E30 M3 a Sleeper?

So I'm watching HD Theater right now and Classic Car Club is profiling the E30 M3. They kick it off by saying some drivers want to advertise they drive a fast car with big exhausts, body kits and a huge spoiler. Ok, I can see where this is going. Then they say some drivers prefer a car with all the performance, but as a sleeper. I get it. They're going to point to that E30 M3 right behind them and say it isn't a sleeper.

Wait, no, scratch that. They say it's one of the latter, a sleeper, and that the only way to tell the M3 from a regular E30 is the little badge the guy is pointing out. What? Whaaaatt? I know that even a totally car-ignorant person could tell apart a 325i and an M3, particularly the E30. They just say the E30 M3 does without a huge rear spoiler, while standing behind it? And those huge flares? Come on CCC, the E30 M3 could very well make my short list for greatest driving car of the last 20 years, but if there's one thing it isn't, it's a sleeper.

That's what happens when non-car people run/are in charge of car shows.

To normal people, a box is a box, and a sportscar is a low, wide, swoopy thing with a convertible top, or a wedgy nose, or doors that open in a nonstandard manner. Yeah, we know what the E30M3 looks like, but our collective grandmas would never guess it's a serious sports machine. But yes, that argument would fly a whole lot better with the E36 than the E30.

It's like car reviews in the local newspaper.

I wouldn't call it a sleeper due to the spoiler and flares. I also wouldn't call it a sleeper do the fact that it is not fast. Granted a great drivers car but mid-high 15's in the quarter does not make a sleeper. There a minivans that can out run that.

(I am not hating, I love M3s. My RX-7 with a built naturally aspirated motor only ran 15.0 at the challange last weekend. Not a sleeper and not fast.)

Greg Voth wrote: (I am not hating, I love M3s. My RX-7 with a built naturally aspirated motor only ran 15.0 at the challange last weekend. Not a sleeper and not fast.)

but sooo nice to look at!

Josh wrote: To normal people, a box is a box, and a sportscar is a low, wide, swoopy thing with a convertible top, or a wedgy nose, or doors that open in a nonstandard manner. Yeah, we know what the E30M3 looks like, but our collective grandmas would never guess it's a serious sports machine. But yes, that argument would fly a whole lot better with the E36 than the E30.

True enough, but from all the Fast & Furious biz and the cars that run around with wings, scoops, flares and fart cans seem to give the typical non-car person the perception that the car is fast, whether it is or not. I think that someone who sees an E30 M3 would think it is fast for the same reasons they would see a stock Civic with big fender flares, a big wing and ground effects package and think that means it's fast.

Thanks. Looking nice is about the only thing it does well sometimes.

I was bummed I couldnt brake into the 14s. I think I could have had I not been running 35psi at the AutoX and didn't think to air them down. It was freakin hot out there also. Also the 9lb flywheel and 6 puck clutch did not make launching easy.

Worst part is it ran a 15.9 when it was stock with an exhaust and had 190,000 on the motor. But that was a cool night up in MD.

Back to E30 M3s. I would love to see what Tims M3 runs in the 1/4 after the tuning and mods hes done. Last time I drove it it was soon after he bought it.

Greg Voth wrote: Not a sleeper and not fast

It ain't a sleeper on looks alone but... there were damn few sedans that could match its lap times in the 80s and it still holds its own as a club racer. It is plenty fast if you allow that a dragstrip is a pretty narrow measure of a car.

Greg Voth wrote: Thanks. Looking nice is about the only thing it does well sometimes. I was bummed I couldnt brake into the 14s. I think I could have had I not been running 35psi at the AutoX and didn't think to air them down. It was freakin hot out there also. Also the 9lb flywheel and 6 puck clutch did not make launching easy. Worst part is it ran a 15.9 when it was stock with an exhaust and had 190,000 on the motor. But that was a cool night up in MD.

We actually talked about that. I was the guy telling you about the -SE's I had.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Greg Voth wrote: Not a sleeper and not fast

It ain't a sleeper on looks alone but... there were damn few sedans that could match its lap times in the 80s and it still holds its own as a club racer. It is plenty fast if you allow that a dragstrip is a pretty narrow measure of a car.

I 100% agree that it is a great car but sleeper to me generally means it will suprise someone. People at a roadcourse know what an M3 is and know what cars can hold their own. Sleeper is generally a street or drag stip machine that noone would expect to be fast. M3 does not equal sleeper in that regard.

Thats kind of funny. The E30 M3 came around when I was a youth, but I remember seeing them on very few occasions and thinking- my god what is that? Boxy sure but very radical looking then and now. Newer M3's are tamer in appearance, but definitely more "lowered" looking.

Greg Voth wrote: I wouldn't call it a sleeper due to the spoiler and flares. I also wouldn't call it a sleeper do the fact that it is not fast. Granted a great drivers car but mid-high 15's in the quarter does not make a sleeper. There a minivans that can out run that.

<-- also much love for M3's here as well...

I still remember the look on my g/f's ('97 M3 owner at the time) face when the commercial of the "new" Accord aired a number of years ago announcing it had "240 hp!" Believe it or not, I think she was almost serious when she asked about a supercharger kit...

I guess the new Evo's are sleepers too? Do regular folks see a Lancer when they see one? Do they see an Imprezza when they see a WRX STI?

Usually when somene posts about HD Theater I feel like I am missing out (ie WRC), but this post makes it all better that I don't have it.

E30 M3 does not equal sleeper in my book.

They (HD Theater) generally do a good job presenting themselves as a collection of true gearhead knowledge. The dumbed-down clip in the example caught me by surprise, as much of the rest of the stuff is pretty knowledgeable.

the only sleeper from the E30 line was the 320is. A european only M3 without the body. It had a smaller 2.0 version of the m engine in the 325is body... it was built for the italian and portugal markets and looked like a standard 325i.. but with most of the M3's performance.

I don't know, the E30 could be a sleeper to the average person. Opa and I went to pick Katie up from school the other day, so I pulled up the M3. He got in, and asked why we had to take "this little E36 M3box" I said "No, no, no, this is one of the finest cars of all time. It was one of the most successful race cars in history" Or something like that. Then he said that the M3 wouldn't have a chance on a track, and that it actually was never raced.

Remember, this is coming from someone who was a car dealer in the 80's.

Tommy, I think that's when you open the door, punch him in the nuts and simultaneously yell, 'get the berkeley outta my car!' Or treat him to a giant, hairy, lurid drift around the first available on ramp, while espousing the virtues of a balanced chassis in a totally nonchalant, conversational tone.

Maybe that's why nobody wants to ride with me anymore.

Tommy Suddard wrote: Remember, this is coming from someone who was a car dealer in the 80's.

a suddard?!

I could see a non-car person seeing the M3 as a sleeper car. Us? Hell no! But to the non-car person a Miata is a hairdressers car. Oh and its not a HD Theater show, its a straight up BBC show that HDTheater is just rebroadcasting. BBC and Discovery have lots of ties.

alex wrote: Or treat him to a giant, hairy, lurid drift around the first available on ramp, while espousing the virtues of a balanced chassis in a totally nonchalant, conversational tone.

Haha! I can imagine that . Maybe do some loops of a round-a-bout, until the message is instilled.

The last time someone called my Mazda a POS, i made damn SURE they were white-knuckled and shaking by the time i parked.

But no, E30 M3 =! sleeper.

It can punch above it's weight. sleeper on the track, but not the road. They are rare enough that the unwashed punters think it is simply a BMW with an aftermarket body kit.

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I had an E30 M3 as a trade on a WRX a while back. I drove the car for 2 weeks. It was lowered on H&R's , a little beat but worked well.

Sadly what was fast back in the 80's is commonplace now. I think my Civic SiR is just as fast in every respect.

but the E30 M3 was def. cooler . The only "True" M3... and yes I had an E36 M3 Pile of Fail

Some mods to the already impressive E30 M3 could do a lot in that regard