E36 M3 clutch and shifting

I test drove a 97 M3 4dr today. Very, VERY clean. 89K miles. The only thing stopping me from saying "I'll take it" is a shifting issue. It takes a serious amount of effort to pop it into gear. the 1-2 switch takes what feels like a 20lb pull and a bit of a wiggle to really find the spot and it snaps into gear. The clutch engages about 1mm from bottom of travel as well. I initially chalked this up to it being an unfamiliar car to me but I am guessing it is related.

Is there any way to determine if it is the hydraulic system or clutch disc/pressure plate problem in a pre purchase inspection? The sales droid is "checking the records" to see if it has had a clutch in its service history but....well I don't trust sales guys.

It will need to have the transmission pulled in order to check for wear of the clutch components. Which means it will need a clutch kit,, clutch slave cylinder, the clutch fork pivot pin.There's little point in separating the drive train to simply replace a minor component. The disc should have lots of life left, but it sounds like the car was owned by a twonk who could not operate a manual gearbox. I'll wager that the clutch delay valve still lives by the clutch slave cylinder. I believe that the CDV causes unnecessary clutch disc wear.

m

Could be as simple as bad transmission mounts combined with a worn shift linkage, both known BMW issues. The engagement point of the clutch could be down to CDV plus old, nasty fluid plus air in the system. Could also be something internal, obviously.

good news... BMW transmission are easier to pull than your average FWB box..

bad news... BMW transmissions are UP in the tunnel. You cannot see them just from looking under the car.. makes getting to some of the bolts a little difficult

mad_machine wrote: good news... BMW transmission are easier to pull than your average FWB box.. bad news... BMW transmissions are UP in the tunnel. You cannot see them just from looking under the car.. makes getting to some of the bolts a little difficult

The first thing I did on my 325i was replace the clutch, and it was a major pain. Worse than any FWD transmission I've pulled. I just pulled another Getrag out of a 325is at the junkyard a month ago, and it wasn't any better. And that was on a car that was already partly disassembled.

My old Getrag 250 was having serious issues shifting into 2nd especially from 3rd. The ZF unit is completely different though.

I think we'd all recommend that if the seller is serious, $1500 should be deducted from the asking price.

m

7pilot wrote: I think we'd all recommend that if the seller is serious, $1500 should be deducted from the asking price. m

At least......

I wouldn't touch the car until you have figured out what is wrong. It could be a host of things, all which require taking the trans out and taking a look.

It should be a sweet shifting machine. (like it's teflon coated) Unless the dealer is prepared to fix it, or take a major chunk off of the price, I'd pass.

ditchdigger wrote: . The clutch engages about 1mm from bottom of travel as well. I initially chalked this up to it being an unfamiliar car to me but I am guessing it is related.

a very common MOD for the e36 is moving he cluth pedal stopper up. its the thing the cluth hits at the bottom of the travel.

that wat the cluthc is only disengaged at the very bottom of the of the travel and lifting up immediately causes ht ecluth to engage. I liked it like that some times its set up to high so the cluthc never diengaged all the way.

I'd base the purchase price on the assumption that the trans and clutch need to be replaced. $3-500 for a trans (which is the same as a 328i of the same vintage, $400(?) for a clutch, a few hundred in new hydraulics and shift bushings "while you're in there".

What's he asking for the car? I really, really miss mine.

I had them biting at $9990 but told them it was dependent on the shifting issue.

The car was ridiculously clean and not in a freshly detailed way. Just a very well maintained, totally unmodified, adult owned M3 four door. Like it was owned by James May. I almost expected to find a vent brush in the glove box.

I liked the fact that it didn't have spoilers or those melted marshmallow looking vader seats. Very subdued, and far classier than any other E36 that I see on the road.

Is it possible it could be running an aftermarket short shifter? (although that seems odd for a car otherwise so unmolested).

Out of everything I've driven(which isn't much) every BMW transmission has been more notchy and required more force to get into gear. My 325is has a z3m short shift kit on it from the previous owner. I don't know what it felt like stock with good bushings, but Im not a huge fan. They had the same clutch release problem with my car as well. I know its a different trans, but it turned out the clutch fork was broken I believe. Im not 100% sure that's what it was, but it turned out being a tiny piece on an otherwise fine transmission.

I have to say, of all the major systems on an M3 to be dodgy, this one seems the least likely to be catastrophic in the worst-case scenario.

Is njansenv's observation about the trans being the same as a 328's correct?

Sure it would suck to find out it needed clutch AND trans, but that seems reasonably unlikely, and could be completely remedied for a grand and a weekend. IF they can make it behave initially, that would make me feel pretty confident it wasn't completely hosed...

There are adjustable stops for both the clutch and throttle pedals on an E36. The idea with the clutch is to reduce shift time by eliminating unnecessary travel. The short, weighted shift knob used on the E46 ZHP package is a popular upgrade for other BMWs to yield shorter more direct throws (in other words a short shift kit is not the only method--and the knob is legal in SCCA stock class!)