Educate me on roof racks

So short version is we are looking at roof racks for my wife's 2008 Mazda 3 wagon. I think everyone else calls it a 5door, but to me its a wagon. We are taking two long road trips this fall and would like to take the Mazda over my Jeep. I figure even with a cargo coffin attached to the top the Mazda still has to get better mileage than my Jeep.

I'm new to the roof rack world. I've always had a hitch and a basket, or trailer, or a truck. The Mazda does not have anything on the roof right now. In looking at how these things attach it looks like they clip underneath or on top of the window seal? Does this affect the seal and let watter in? Also are there rubber pads or anything to protect the paint from the clips or feet where they make contact with the roof? The cars not perfect, but it is very clean with no major damage or issues. Glaring scratches from the roof rack attachment points would upset the Mrs.'s and nobody wants that.

Also I am assuming these four feet take the weight of the crossbars and place it on the stronger parts of the car where they attach at the doors, thus not damaging or denting the roof. But what ever happened to the old Sears gray/white cargo boxes? I get that you can't load as much in those unless you want to dent the roof, but how did they attach to the car? Were they the same as shutting them under the seal? I've seen few of those on my local CL so I figured I'd ask.

I've looked and found that just getting the fee to attach to the car, and the cross bars by Yakima or Thule are $300+. That doesn't include the cost of the cargo coffin thing that goes on the rack. I found another by a company called SportRack for less than half the price of the Yakima/Thule stuff, anyone have experience with them? They attachment points look similar to the bigger companies. The attachment feet look beefier on the Thule/Yakima stuff. Is this another one of those, you get what you pay for type things? Honestly, I don't want this thing to damage the car, or come loose and fall off going down the interstate.

Thanks

I have only owned Thule racks, but I've owned a bunch of them. When mounted, they are almost solid enough to be considered part of the car. I've never had a problem with window seals.

Thanks Woody. Glad to know they are pretty solid.

Just trying to figure out why I'm spending 10 times as much as one of these. Well besides the Grizzwald like look of one of these...

http://asheville.craigslist.org/pts/4044397672.html $30 Sears Cargo box

FWIW, I have a Thule cargo box. It's been up and down I75 a few times but spends more time in the barn than on the road. Thing is, it's very well built, water tight, easy to install and remove, holds way more stuff than I though would fit up there, and is essentially indistinguishable from new after a few years and several thousand road miles. I'm glad I paid more and got the real deal. Especially when I'm on the road and see some poor dude with an Xcargo box held together with five ratchet straps trying like hell to tear the roof off their Escort...

I'm pretty sure the OEM mazda3 roof rack is made by thule.

octavious wrote: Thanks Woody. Glad to know they are pretty solid. Just trying to figure out why I'm spending 10 times as much as one of these. Well besides the Grizzwald like look of one of these... http://asheville.craigslist.org/pts/4044397672.html $30 Sears Cargo box

I have one of those that I bought for $20 off of craigslist, I strap it on my tire-trailer for road trips. It works fine, but it is not nearly as good as the Yakima that my parents had on their minivan when we kids were growing up. I strap the sears deal down with some tow straps, and it buckles under pressure. Not going to break or leak, but just not nearly as solid as a quality product. Also, my parents box would stay open. Mine does not, you have to hold it up. Parents box would lock, mine could if I installed a padlock deal on it, but that would only stop the most honest of thieves.

You get what you pay for. So ask yourself what you really need--is it something to keep some clothes dry for a 4 hour trip, or is it something that you are using for a camping trip and need it to be safe and secure? If it was me, I'd be going with Thule or Yakima for your application. The X-Cargo is perfectly fine for my trailer for 2 people to take a trip in a Miata. But I still have to strap it down with ratchet strapes underneath, as well as over the top.

We had our first Thule box (Spocks coffin was its nick name) for 10 years and many many tens of thousands of miles. It was really really good quality, we loved it. I lent it to a friend who then forgot it was on top of his minivan and drove into the garage. Big scrape on the garage door lower edge That would not have been a problem as due to the tapered shape it just pushed in slightly and scratched it. He could have got out and removed it in the garage no problem, but he panicked and backed out. That was an issue as the square end now caught on the garage door and ripped a hole in the corner. He did the honorable thing and bought me a new one at great expense. While I appreciate it and love it, I think they've gone too far. When we got ours you ordered left or right hand hinge for opening. The new ones you can open from either side and the there is no actual true hinge alone the edge. The lock mechanism acts as a hinge on whatever side you’re not opening and the end supports can work in either direction. Once already I’ve had one go over center and throw the whole thing off. Luckily that was at home when empty, not in the middle of a trip with stuff in there. Also to make it easier to load and unload they've made the top deeper and the bottom shallower. The issue is for me the bottom is too shallow now, you can't put stuff in it then close it, now you put stuff on it and close over it. So I think they’ve gone too far with the features. Still the quality is excellent and the roof rack part if you don't have an integrated one is simply amazing in design, detail and construction.

Show off rolling Thule ad here. Yes that's two roof racks, one top box and three bike carriers!!!

I believe Thule and Yakima both make racks for the Mazda3 that attach directly to the roof (there are attachment points built into the roof by Mazda for rack mounting). If you're buying new rack parts and are concerned about noise and overall impact on paint etc, this is the way that I would go.

I have Yakima parts (though I think I would buy Thule if I were buying new) and have used roof direct mount and door frame mount. Both ways work and I think they're rated up to 100-150 lbs. There is more noise with the door frame mount, but not terrible in my experience.

There are 3 parts to the Yakima bar system. Bars, towers, and feet. The bars and towers are basically universal, the feet need to fit your specific car. You can buy feet on Ebay for about half of retail (still ridiculously overpriced for what they are). You can find bars and towers on CL for a small fraction of retail all day long. I bought a set of Yakima bars and towers at a garage sale for $5.

I'd go Yakima or Thule. If you want to save money go 2nd hand.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Show off rolling Thule ad here. Yes that's two roof racks, one top box and three bike carriers!!!

I really want those trailer sides you have. Unfortunately HF no longer sells them

That is the trailer that I put a Sears box on.

Sportrack stuff works fine too. It's not as pretty as the Yak and Thule stuff. I have a Karrite box. It cost about 1/2 as much as the Yak and Thule stuff and is just as good and waterproof.

Noise can be an issue. My current set up has aero style bars with a c-channel in the bar. It is quiet and works great. You can get all sorts of attachments for various cargo. To avoid scratches the factory bolt ins are best. Otherwise the Yak feet are nice soft rubber. You can put some painters tape under the feet to be extra sure.

Almost a whole day and I'm no closer than I was before.

One question, I found a factory Mazda rack off a Mazda5 anyone know if it will fit a 3 wagon? It's only $50 but not close to the me. I don't mind driving to get it, but I'd like to know if it would fit before I go. Anyone with a Mazda 5 rack, can you tell me if it has any adjustment in width?

From calling Mazda, I'm kind of stumped. Mazda said they didn't offer a factory roof rack on the 2008 model year. I called two different dealers and neither could find anything for the 2008. The said the earliest they had was 2010 for the 3 wagon.

From looking on the internet, it appears that if the car has factory Mazda mounts they will be underneath the plastic channel along both sides of the roof. Only way to know is to pull the channel and see. In about an hour or so when I get off work I'll know if we have the mounts.

Why is something as simple as a roof rack so frustrating?

Do a little research on the parts you need for your car. The Yakima racks and crossbars themselves are not car specific. The crossbars are usually just based on width. The pieces that are custom fit to each car are the mounting pieces - the feet? So you might be able to pick up a rack from craigslist and then just buy the new mounting parts. But, there are different types of crossbars, so make sure you buy the cross bar that matches the required mounts. Remember you can always cut down someone else's bars if they are too wide for your car. The locks are what get expensive. I have a couple of Yakima racks that have been on a couple of cars over the years. I used the same rack and bought a new mounting kit for the new car. It is a good investment, the racks may outlive your car.

octavious wrote: Why is something as simple as a roof rack so frustrating?

And this is why I'm planning a HF based Kayak trailer instead of a roof rack for my new car.

Good luck.

neon4891 said: And this is why I'm planning a HF based Kayak trailer instead of a roof rack for my new car.

Yeah I'm getting ready to say screw it and take the Jeep and trailer.

octavious wrote:

neon4891 said: And this is why I'm planning a HF based Kayak trailer instead of a roof rack for my new car.

Yeah I'm getting ready to say screw it and take the Jeep and trailer.

How big a trailer? Could the Mazda pull it? Awfully cheap and easy to put a hitch on a car.

I'll just add a bit of insight since I've sold and installed Yakima, Thule, and some other brands over the last 15 years working at a ski shop:

If you're using the doorjamb mounts, Thule is the best fit. They have about a bazillion different "fit kits" specific to pretty much every single car. Yakima has less fit kits for the same number of cars, so some are used on several "similar" cars. In some cases they are a perfect fit, in other cases they are "kind-a" correct, in my experience. So in your case, I'd suggest Thule.

Yakima is better for racks that mount to factory rails, as the Yaki rail-riders work better and are more easily adjusted correctly. Plus the Yaki bars are round and are inherently stronger if you want to carry really heavy loads.

That said, the Square Thule bars are plenty strong for anything you'll put on a Mazda5. I once put a couch on the roof of my Accord with them.

For accessories, the Thule stuff tends to be a bit better build quality and more stout, and Yaki accessories tend to start rusting quicker than Thule. At least for bike/ski accessories.

For cargo boxes, they are pretty equal. Find one that is the size you want and the price you want.

Just for context....on my WRX I have a 15-year-old Thule setup (though the mounts are newer) and it has gone through many winters on the car all winter. No rust, no issues, nothing has broken. I have ski and bike (fork-mount) attachements for it. It's also hauled many loads of lumber and other stuff.

On our 4Runner I have Yakima rail-riders (I forget which ones) with Yaki crossbars. They're in good shape too, but Yaki ski attachments are kind of wimpy (IMO). We carry a large Yakima cargo box (Spacebooster 16, IIRC) on long trips and it's great.

So you really can't go wrong with either, but if you're doing door-jamb mounts I'd suggest going with Thule.

Oh also, the round Yaki bars WILL whistle audibly if you don't get a fairing for them. It's almost a howl and really annoying. The Thule bars won't whistle but you will get wind noise of other types.

So...get a fairing no matter which one you go with. The new fairings work, though I prefer the old-school larger fairings (NLA new), which can be found on CL and ebay and such.

Also I think it was mentioned, but check the "channel" for mounts. The WRX has little metal backing plates under little hatches in the channel, and the rack literally screws right into it rather than using clips, so there is no chance of breaking the door seal or scratching anything. Plus it's quick and easy. My wife's old Jetta has some "lugs" hidden down behind the door weather stripping that the fit kit attached to. It wasn't as convenient but still worked.

Mtn - Trailer is a 1942 Willy's MBT. Does OK around town, but I would like to do some work on it before going out of town. The Mazda would probably pull it, but it is tall, because it is an off road trailer so it has high ground clearance.

Irish - thanks. That's some good info. I take it that what you are saying is not all cargo boxes fit all racks. Sounds about right as each company makes and markets their own products.

I looked this afternoon. Under the roof trim pieces and I found the four mounts. They look like you just screw the rack mounts down on to them. They are also a lot closer together than I thought. Like right over each door. I thought they would be spaced out more to distribute the load better.

octavious wrote: But what ever happened to the old Sears gray/white cargo boxes? I get that you can't load as much in those unless you want to dent the roof, but how did they attach to the car?

I didnt see this get answered. we grew up using one of these on family road trips. we tied it down with straps that had rubber hooks on them, that we hooked on the rain rails of the minivan. (we are talking 90's minivan here) I am not sure if there were other ways to attach it, but what modern car has rain rails anymore?

my rents still have that sears x-cargo in the basement. I feel like I should do something with it. Ive seen people mount them to the cheap HF trailers.

failboat wrote:

octavious wrote: But what ever happened to the old Sears gray/white cargo boxes? I get that you can't load as much in those unless you want to dent the roof, but how did they attach to the car?

I didnt see this get answered. we grew up using one of these on family road trips. we tied it down with straps that had rubber hooks on them, that we hooked on the rain rails of the minivan. (we are talking 90's minivan here) I am not sure if there were other ways to attach it, but what modern car has rain rails anymore? my rents still have that sears x-cargo in the basement. I feel like I should do something with it. Ive seen people mount them to the cheap HF trailers.

I'll take a picture of mine at the next commercial.

octavious wrote: Mtn - Trailer is a 1942 Willy's MBT. Does OK around town, but I would like to do some worm on it before going out of town. The Mazda would probably pull it, but its tall. Its an off road trailer so it has high ground clearance. Irish - thanks. That's some good info. But part of what you are saying is not all cargo boxes fit all racks. Makes since. I looked this afternoon. Under the roof trim pieces and I found the four mounts. They look like you just screw the rack mounts down on to them. They are also a lot closer together than I thought. Like right over each door. I thought they would be spaced out more to distribute the load better.

That's the way they are on the subaru too. The Yakima or Thule site can tell you the "ideal" bar spread for various accessories, but most cars are "set up" correctly for that.

On the WRX I have a bar spread of 32" between front and back. ON the 4Runner I think I have it set to 33" (though it can go much farther if I want to).

My Yakima box is set to 33" for the 4Runner, but the mounts adjust about 2-3" each direction, so I could do a 28" or a 36" spread if needed. Most of the Yaki and Thule boxes have the mounts on a "track" to fit various bar spreads.

By sizing of the box, I meant that you need to take into consideration two main things: First, It's best if it doesn't overhang the windshield (because of the aero hitting the bottom of the box for major drag). I align the front of the box so it matches the windshield's curve on the 4Runner. Also gotta be careful on the rear end if it's an SUV/hatch. If I move the box too far back the 4Runner's hatch "spoiler" will hit it.

Here's a pic of the 33" bar spread with the box. This isn't the largest Yaki box, I think it's the 2nd largest, IIRC.

I'm not a fan of the tall "boxy" boxes like the old Sears ones....you can really feel the drag. Get one with good aero - it does matter.

here's a front shot to show the width

For comparison sake, here's where the rails are on the WRX, just for your reference. Right over the doors, just like yours. I don't have a photo of the box on this car, but it's been on there a couple times.

So I lied, mine isn't an X-Cargo, it is a Karrite Voyager. Looks exactly the same, I suspect that it is.

This picture doesn't show too well, so I'll try to describe it: The green strap is just a ratchet strap bought at lowes, nothing special. Black things are the padding against the car--mine goes up against plywood, so who gives a berk, but I wouldn't put it on a car. You can barely see the metal thingy that the strap goes through, this is about 6 inches long and 1/2 inch sticks out. When I bought it, there were 4 individual straps with hooks on them, but they were pretty old and didn't feel very strong anymore. I now send one single strap all the way across for each pair of metal thingys.

www.rackattack.com is your friend

I have a Thule on my DD (sometimes). To mount it you remove the trim over the A/B/C pillars and it wraps around the weld flange on the spaceframe. Strong as hell - although I think different than many cars due to the plastic trim on the Saturn. I'd bet money that with a forklift you could pick the car up by the roof rack.

The Thule feet and fit kit were in the trunk of my last car when I bought it, so I just got the crossbars and a bike tray to finish the job. Then I just changed the fit kit out when I changed cars. The fit-kit plastic parts that set the angle are annoying to get into place. I broke one, but it still works ok without it.

If I were buying one from scratch... I'd strongly consider Yakima instead. The problem I have with Thule is the square bars. Because the bars are square, they are very sensitive to how far apart they are mounted on a car with a curved roof. The recommended install dimensions were too close for my liking. I managed squeeze out another 6" and the bars are definitely not orthagonal anymore, but they still work with the bike trays. With the round bars of the Yakima you can adjust them forward/back as you please without compromising fit of accessories.

Without a fairing the Thule is noisy. It does hurt mileage a little bit. In town its only about a 1mpg difference. On the highway its about 2mpg, and another 2 with the bikes on the roof. I was pleasantly surprised to get 30mpg on a road trip with 2 bikes on the roof... you can really feel the aero drag.

So after a weird craigslist experience which I'll get into later, I came home with all of the following for $100. I initially wanted a bigger box but after testfitting this one on the Mazda3 I think it will work for us. The round bars are Highland brand, and have generic straps to fit inside the door frame. I don't plan on keeping the Highland bars.

I measured the square bars across the car, and the ends of the bar stick out just past the door tops on both sides. The mounts on the square bars are for a car with rain gutters.

I was told everything else was Thule. Question For confirmation before I order a fit kit, are the square bars Thule bars?