End of the line for combustion engines?

"on a long enough timeline, everyone's survival rate drops to zero." - Tyler Durden

But seriously, of course the day will come when IC engines stop being made. It only makes sense. It won't be anytime soon, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it in my lifetime. The capabilities of cars like the fast Teslas prove that there are vast advantages to using electric power once all the logistic and storage issues get engineered out. And they will. There will still be plenty of hobby cars around, but you know Jay Leno still drives his Stanley Steamer some days.

I'm actually fine with this. The IC engine is ancient technology anyway. Converting to EV will simply take the combustion part out of the equation. We'll continue to mod anyway: Overclocking processors, adding more memory, changing operating systems to allow more customizability, adding and deleting here and there so we get the exact features we want.  There will  also still be plenty of suspension and chassis bits to work on. Doubtful much of that will change because, like, physics and stuff   

I love the idea of electric cars for my daily driving. Plug it in at night in my garage and im good to go in the morning. Only problem is I need to drive 100-150 miles a day. Cool...Tesla has that covered you say.....but wait, I live in Michigan. It gets fricken cold here. It snows here. I need heat for me and to de-ice the windows.  Heating the cabin and the batteries kills range to the point I'd be counting electrons to make it home.   plugging in at work isn't a option, and even if it was, what a pain in the ass. So, I'll keep burning dead dino's for a long time yet. 

I do agree that we are near or at the peak of internal combustion horsepower. We've come to a time where Camrys have 300 horsepower. Where a run of the mill Mustang GT has 460hp. Its a wonderful time. But as far as using these levels of power on the street, it's getting tough to justify the need for any more. Not that I'm complaining if we continue on adding more though. 

penultimeta said:

I'm actually fine with this. The IC engine is ancient technology anyway. Converting to EV will simply take the combustion part out of the equation. We'll continue to mod anyway: Overclocking processors, adding more memory, changing operating systems to allow more customizability, adding and deleting here and there so we get the exact features we want.  There will  also still be plenty of suspension and chassis bits to work on. Doubtful much of that will change because, like, physics and stuff   

Technically, IC motors and Electric motors are about the same age- if IC's cars are acient, so are electric cars.

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

I find it comically infuriating that the very people who scream the loudest about the hazards of nuclear powerplants are the people who are actually keeping nuclear powerplants unsafe by preventing the construction of modern plants and forcing older, outdated designs to stay in service long past their intended lives.

Idiots much?

In reply to Duke :

If you think others should accept any power plant in their back yard- be a leader and volunteer for the first plant in your back yard.  That will start the movement.

We have one, thanks.  I would dearly love for them to build a new reactor there.

TGMF said:

I love the idea of electric cars for my daily driving. Plug it in at night in my garage and im good to go in the morning. Only problem is I need to drive 100-150 miles a day. Cool...Tesla has that covered you say.....but wait, I live in Michigan. It gets fricken cold here. It snows here. I need heat for me and to de-ice the windows.  Heating the cabin and the batteries kills range to the point I'd be counting electrons to make it home.   plugging in at work isn't a option, and even if it was, what a pain in the ass. So, I'll keep burning dead dino's for a long time yet. 

So you are saying one of the dozens of Hybrids already on the market is perfect for you?

BTW, everyone keeps calling chicken little with the UK announced it was going to phase ban the sale of new petrol or diesel vehicles by 2040, but that is a ban on exclusively gas or diesel powered vehicle, hybrids will still be legal and on sale at that time.  

Just imagine how great it would be if Puerto Rico had  100% electric cars!  

oh wait......

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

Of course hybrids fit my daily driving needs, however, as always, there are other realities to consider affecting my vehicle choice (towing, space for me/kid seats +++)  I didn't bother to list.

     Hybrids use a  internal combustion engine that this  thread was specifically pointing out the end to investment, and eventually use of  as we know it.   Some day I hope electric cars do fit my needs, but they aren't even close for me yet. 

In reply to TGMF :

That's different and the same reason my next car is going to be a new gas powered Bronco when it comes out.  I want to be able to tow a 5,000lb travel trailer accross the country :) 

Sorry, when I re-read my post it seemed harsh.  It wasn't intended that way.

penultimeta said:

I'm actually fine with this. The IC engine is ancient technology anyway. Converting to EV will simply take the combustion part out of the equation*. We'll continue to mod anyway: Overclocking processors, adding more memory, changing operating systems to allow more customizability, adding and deleting here and there so we get the exact features we want.  There will  also still be plenty of suspension and chassis bits to work on. Doubtful much of that will change because, like, physics and stuff   

*local equation.

We still use a lot of combustion to produce electricity on the grid.

In reply to RossD :

The difference is grid production systems are typically far more efficient at producing KW(HP) for a given amount of fuel burned than vehicle engines.

mad_machine said:

Snrub said:

 No company selling in an emerging market plans to introduce a new design?

Why would they? That's like saying they need to start with coal fired steam engines first before they can use IC engines. If you are starting from scratch, you can build up the whole infastructure from scratch and avoid all the starts and stops the already developed world has gone through. Learn from their mistakes and jump from nothing to clean energy

Periodically manufacturers determine it will be beneficial to go with a clean (or cleaner) sheet engine design than to continue to tweak existing designs.  Inexpensive vehicles sold in emerging markets use less expensive technology, hence may use the ICE for longer than we do.  Their current designs likely have lower spec "features" and design due to cost and hence have more room for improvement.  It's one thing to suggest a $30k car has cost parity between ICE and electric drivetrains, it's another to suggest the same for a $5-10k car.

alfadriver said:Technically, IC motors and Electric motors are about the same age- if IC's cars are acient, so are electric cars.

 

And talk about ancient - nuclear power plants are pretty much external combustion engines. They use steam - STEAM, can you imagine it? - generated by heat to turn turbines. That's some old school stuff.

At least for me I make the destination between commuter and enthusiast cars... for my commuter, I’m fine with electric. I’m fine with it driving itself for that matter. I want to fall asleep and wake up at work. For my enthusiast cars... I don’t know. I don’t much care about the engine either way to be honest. It’s suspension I care about. But that’s just me. 

I will say I have a brand new c max hybrid as a loaner right now while our excruciatingly disappointing but very pretty 2016 dct focus gets a new (surprise surprise!) clutch installed. I’m pretty disappointed in the c max. It’s averaging 38.5 mpg, and our non hybrid focus gets 34.5. Not worth the cost difference, smaller trunk and funny looks for 4 mpg. On my wife’s 30,000 mile yearly commute that’s about 300 bucks in gas. 

But it it is quicker feeling than the focus. Not sure if it is but I do like it’s acceleration. 

Duke said:

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

I find it comically infuriating that the very people who scream the loudest about the hazards of nuclear powerplants are the people who are actually keeping nuclear powerplants unsafe by preventing the construction of modern plants and forcing older, outdated designs to stay in service long past their intended lives.

Idiots much?

It's a complicated, multi-faceted issue.  IMO rampant cost over runs may be the biggest deterrent to new nuclear plants.  Old designs might be inferior, but upgrade and maintenance projects are more able to be accurately estimated and completed on time.  Cheap and boutiful natural gas is the biggest threat to all other forms electricity generation.  There's also a defacto gov't subsidy of nuclear because there isn't an insurance company in the world who would cover a nuclear power plant.  That's not meant to be fear mongering, it's reality.  Ongoing fuel costs may seem low, but disposal and it's cost are essentially punted down the road.

Ah, how many times in my life have I heard this.

When they build an electric car that will tavel over 400 miles non stop and then recharge in less than a minute I would consider one.      A hybrid might work but I am still leery of battery life.

Oh, look, it's this thread again...

"Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated"

  -The Internal Combustion Engine

dculberson said:

alfadriver said:Technically, IC motors and Electric motors are about the same age- if IC's cars are acient, so are electric cars.

 

And talk about ancient - nuclear power plants are pretty much external combustion engines. They use steam - STEAM, can you imagine it? - generated by heat to turn turbines. That's some old school stuff.

My continuous point is that people dismiss stuff for an alternative because "old" or "ancient" when the proposed alternative is no newer.  

Tech for the sake of tech age is a wrong way of deciding.  Electric motors, batteries and engines are not what they were 130 years ago, but they are all, roughly, the same age.

And your point about steam engines matter, too- steam turbine efficiency matters on how it's driven.  But at least the turbine part is about 50 years younger than ICE's and electrics.  Hardly makes it new tech, though.  

Still, can't dismiss a technology just because of it's age.

Streetwiseguy said:

There really isn't a whole lot more to find from IC engines.

It may seem that way when manufacturers will spend millions of dollars for fractional percentage gains in efficiency and emissions...But then somebody like Mazda comes along with a major double-digit gains breakthrough, like Skyactiv-X.  They're claiming a 10% to 30% increase in torque, combined with a 20% to 30% increase in fuel economy, on top of lower well-to-wheel emissions than EV's getting their power from coal plants and on par with EV's getting their power from 'clean' natural gas plants.  Now imagine the possibilities of expanding that out to all the other production engines out there, from hybrids to hyper cars.  

Much like EV's "only" needs a breakthrough in battery technology and a breakthrough in clean/safe electrical power generation, so too does the Skyactiv-X "only" need a breakshrough in bio-fuel production.

Driven5 said:

Streetwiseguy said:

There really isn't a whole lot more to find from IC engines.

It may seem that way when manufacturers will spend millions of dollars for fractional percentage gains in efficiency and emissions...But then somebody like Mazda comes along with a major double-digit gains breakthrough, like Skyactiv-X.  They're claiming a 10% to 30% increase in torque, combined with a 20% to 30% increase in fuel economy, on top of lower well-to-wheel emissions than EV's getting their power from coal plants and on par with EV's getting their power from natural gas plants.  Now imagine the possibilities of expanding that out to all the other production engines out there, from hybrids to hyper cars.  

Yes, but... Toyota did the same thing with a very convention and non high tech engine.  Which is to say- they got the same gains, but for a whole lot less money.  And a whole lot less compromise for other things.  That's a good example that we've not done a great job optimizing the basic ICE.