^Also, unless the gas station is on the RH side of the road along your traditional commute and there is no traffic when leaving, there is going to be some time cost of actually turning in/out of the gas station.
I've filled up my car 242 times. * 5 minutes each, thats 20 hours spent at the gas pump.
But then again, an electric car may have a cost of say 30 seconds/day to plug in/unplug, which would make it almost a wash.
In reply to ProDarwin :
Our wager is still on, yes? What was the date you'd predicted, 2025?
I'll even help it along...I'm considering purchasing either a Bolt or a Leaf next year. 
I'm assuming you are talking to Gameboy? I don't recall wagering anything.
volvoclearinghouse said:In reply to ProDarwin :
Our wager is still on, yes? What was the date you'd predicted, 2025?
I'll even help it along...I'm considering purchasing either a Bolt or a Leaf next year.
Once it's on it can't be off! 2030 IIRC...I see a free tank of gas or EV charge in my future!
In reply to volvoclearinghouse :
Give yourself a slight additional amount of time for pulling off the highway and slowing down before you can jump out etc. then add a little time to hang up the hose, get in, start the car, and drive back onto the highway. A lot more if you have kids with you.
An electric car you're going through all the steps you'd have to do every time you come home, leave - except the 30 seconds to plug unplug. Depending on how far you drove and how far you expect to drive next you may not plug/ unplug every time
In reply to rslifkin :
Don't forget the demands during the day of retail, manufacturing, office etc
Solar will help reduce that and maybe growth will be met by solar and wind rather than building new power stations.
I said it last time and I'll say it again here. We're a $5 per gallon gas (or a $2.50 increase by todays prices) crisis away from wide spread adoption of EVs and electric cars. Chevy has 35k Bolts just sitting out there right now along with an idled facility and almost every manufacturer has a 40+ mpg plugin hybrid of some sort.
A civil war in Iraq, as now appears to be fomenting, or the collapse of Venezuela, also a real possibility, and we're there since the strategic oil reserves can only go for so long.
In reply to The0retical : I agree with you. While I've never pulled the trigger yet I remember the first fuel shortage I'd bought a Chevy Vega a year later the shortage hit and I sold it for more than I paid for it
I want a Volt before that happens again.
In reply to ProDarwin :
Sorry. You guys' avatars are similar, I get you confused occasionally. One of you has your car going left, and the other right.
frenchyd said:In reply to The0retical : I agree with you. While I've never pulled the trigger yet I remember the first fuel shortage I'd bought a Chevy Vega a year later the shortage hit and I sold it for more than I paid for it
I want a Volt before that happens again.
I recall the last time 87 octanes cost ~$4 or more (what was that, 8 or 9 years ago now?) and prices on old clapped out Geo Metros, 240D Mercedes, VW diesels, and every other E36 M3box claiming super-duper MPG went through the roof. Now, I just got a decent 240D for $750. I guess I should hold onto it for the next gas crisis?
My local dealership is already offering over a grand off MSRP on new Bolts, and that's just the advertised price. I bet if I went in an haggled I could get them even lower.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
I believe the wager was that 1/2 of all the vehicles on the road had to be full, pure EV. I still think I'm holding the strong hand, here!
volvoclearinghouse said:In reply to ProDarwin :
Sorry. You guys' avatars are similar, I get you confused occasionally. One of you has your car going left, and the other right.
Bwahaha I never thought of that. I guess they're both black wedge-shaped cars dodging cones. But an AE92 Corolla looks plenty different from a Saturn SL-2 
The0retical said:I said it last time and I'll say it again here. We're a $5 per gallon gas (or a $2.50 increase by todays prices) crisis away from wide spread adoption of EVs and electric cars. Chevy has 35k Bolts just sitting out there right now along with an idled facility and almost every manufacturer has a 40+ mpg plugin hybrid of some sort.
A civil war in Iraq, as now appears to be fomenting, or the collapse of Venezuela, also a real possibility, and we're there since the strategic oil reserves can only go for so long.
That was when Katrina hit the Gulf coast and refineries were down for weeks/months. I had bought my TDI wagon about 2 years prior. Probably could have sold it for more than I paid for it. For whatever reason, when gas prices went through the roof, diesel prices did not and I was paying about $2 less per gallon for diesel. The TDI option paid for itself during that time.
GameboyRMH said:volvoclearinghouse said:In reply to ProDarwin :
Sorry. You guys' avatars are similar, I get you confused occasionally. One of you has your car going left, and the other right.
Bwahaha I never thought of that. I guess they're both black wedge-shaped cars dodging cones. But an AE92 Corolla looks plenty different from a Saturn SL-2
Its an SC2, and its blue
In reply to volvoclearinghouse :1/2 of all the cars? Wow! Let's see the average age of a car on the road is 11 years or something like that?
I seem to remember we are building something like 21 million cars a year, so that means 210 million cars x2 round out out to 400 million cars
Oops, I forgot to subtract cars removed from the road due to damage, wear and lack of use. I suppose that still leaves over 200 million on the road. Since less than 1% are EVs now the factory's will need to dramatically increase production to meet the wager
ProDarwin said:GameboyRMH said:volvoclearinghouse said:In reply to ProDarwin :
Sorry. You guys' avatars are similar, I get you confused occasionally. One of you has your car going left, and the other right.
Bwahaha I never thought of that. I guess they're both black wedge-shaped cars dodging cones. But an AE92 Corolla looks plenty different from a Saturn SL-2
Its an SC2, and its blue
To a guy whose stable includes Volvo 122s and a Jaguar 3.8S...yeah, your dark-colored, wedge-shaped cars look the same. Especially in a 150 x 150 pixel avatar.
frenchyd said:In reply to volvoclearinghouse :1/2 of all the cars? Wow! Let's see the average age of a car on the road is 11 years or something like that?
I seem to remember we are building something like 21 million cars a year, so that means 210 million cars x2 round out out to 400 million cars
Yes, that's why I bet him that half the cars on the road in 2030 would NOT be electric. He bet me they would be.
I fixed it. This way I'm not on the hook for a tank of fuel 13 years from now 
volvoclearinghouse said:In reply to GameboyRMH :
I believe the wager was that 1/2 of all the vehicles on the road had to be full, pure EV. I still think I'm holding the strong hand, here!
Finally found the actual wager, it was that half of new car sales by volume will be non-ICE by 2027:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/france-to-ban-fuel-powered-cars-by-2040/130794/page2/
I still think I'm gonna win!
In reply to frenchyd :
In theory: A fuel stop for an ice car happens once every 400 miles, while an electric car must stop four/five times. And it takes longer to re-fuel.
As a commuter car, electric makes sense when you can re-fuel at home while you sleep.
I think a hybrid is the all around answer.
iceracer said:In reply to frenchyd :
In theory: A fuel stop for an ice car happens once every 400 miles, while an electric car must stop four/five times. And it takes longer to re-fuel.
As a commuter car, electric makes sense when you can re-fuel at home while you sleep.
I think a hybrid is the all around answer.
I agree with your overall point, that hybrids are a better fit for most but you're selling fully electric vehicles short if you think they'd need to charge 4 or 5 times to get 400 miles. You can go to your local Chevy dealer right now and buy one that gets 238 miles on a full charge. You can buy a Tesla that will do 335 miles on a single charge. And they're getting better all the time.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Hybrids have been around for 15 years now, and _they_ don't even account for 1/2 of all new car sales. No way will electrics manage that in 10 years.
Also, how are we going to handle the semantics of what, exactly, is a "car"? Do CUVS count? Body-on-Frame SUVS? Trucks? 3-wheeled...things?
I'd say anything that has 3~4 wheels and is commonly street-legal without a helmet being worn should count as a "car."
With so many countries aiming to phase out ICEs in new cars in the 2030s, any manufacturer that doesn't have at least 50% EVs (or other non-ICEs, but I'm pretty sure it will be EVs) in their lineup should be E36 M3ting their pants in 2027. And I think that as EV range and charge speeds improve, you'll at some point have a "dam burst" effect of pent-up demand from the range-anxious crowd. I think that will come well before 2027 - probably 3~5 years from now.
They may build them but will people buy them.
The0retical said:I said it last time and I'll say it again here. We're a $5 per gallon gas (or a $2.50 increase by todays prices) crisis away from wide spread adoption of EVs and electric cars. Chevy has 35k Bolts just sitting out there right now along with an idled facility and almost every manufacturer has a 40+ mpg plugin hybrid of some sort.
A civil war in Iraq, as now appears to be fomenting, or the collapse of Venezuela, also a real possibility, and we're there since the strategic oil reserves can only go for so long.
This---- most of the masses make transportation decisions based on cost. If gasoline remains cheap, or gets cheaper. (which it may) Electrics will remain a novelty. If gasoline prices spike, or rise for the long-term, there will be vastly increased demand. Governments may be making these rules now, to spur on electric development, but if the time comes for implementation, and electrics are still cost prohibitive vs. ICE cars, the rules will change. If the world economy does well, and folks have $$ to spend, (or govt. subsidies make them cost competitive) they will do well.
When times are tough, people vote with their wallets. The least expensive, most rational (financial) solution will prevail. When the economy is booming, regular folks are much more careless with their $$ and spend more to satisfy their egos----- ie the big SUV boom of the 90s.
No one quite knows where we are headed.
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